Why the airlines?

[hawg2hawk]

Question for the young guys.
How many of you started your pilot training with the stated goal of becoming an airline pilot? And for those that did, why? The challenge of flying complex equipment? Lifestyle? Paycheck? All/none of the above?
I didn't personally start out with airline aspirations, but on here and in the real world I see a lot of young guys in their first couple of years of flying who are working **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hard with the single purpose of getting hired at a major, and I wanted to hear more about what led them in that direction.
In the interest of postponing the inevitable f*** you contest as long as possible, none of the above is an editorial comment about anything. Just curious.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Free flight bennies
ps, anybody know what freight ops or smaller places with reciprocity for Jump seat or id90 type family stuff?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

QOL for me. Ability to collect a nice paycheck while working as little as possible. All pre 9-11 of course.

 

[Xavier]

Primarily because of being able to fly while making a nice paycheck and only working a few days a week.

I would personally be fine with flying in the Regionals/Corporate depending on what the pay and all that was. As long as I am flying a jet making decent money I'll be happy.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I personally believe that we were all brainwashed by Embry Riddle, Cessna Aircraft, the guy who makes E6Bs, Flying magazine, John and Martha King, Sporty's Pilot Shop and Kit Darby -- or, as I like to call them -- the Legion of Doom.

We were mislead into believing that we could have long-term careers in beautiful airplanes with even more beautiful flight attendants earning six figure salaries and -- the worst lie of all -- if we got hired in the beginning of a hiring cycle we would be set for life!

It was all a sham! There's no such thing as an airline career. There's just your next airline job!

They're generally fun while they last though. Just dont buy any expensive stuff.... oh and marry someone who earns a good living.

 

[bobs98tlr]

In no particular order....

Working for a big company, making good money, flying cool planes, being able to go to work and not have to think about sitting at a desk looking at a computer screen all day with no windows. Being able to say your a pilot for an airline..

I grew up around airplanes and being able to be the PIC of a big cool airplane is just what i have thought to be the greatist job in the world. That is what im after really, to have the a job that would make me happy. Hopefully time will change once again for the better in the airline industry.

 

[NewBlue]

"Chicks dig it"

 

[Dr Pokenhiemer]

I left a 12-year career in the military to pursue an airline job. That was in 1999. Now, I am content on staying in my air ambulance job because I can't afford to make what a regional pays for the first 3-5 years! It's hard to support a family on thoses wages. I feel like I had to sacrifice so much just to get to this point and I'm not willing to put my family through that again. If I were single, the airlines would still be an option.

 

[minitour]

For me, I was always fascinated with airplanes and airports, but I got shnoockered. I was a manager at a retail store for 3 years when a CAL 777 CA came in looking for something to buy his wife (he was going to be out of town for their anniversary). We got to talking while I quickly prepared his gift and he was telling me about "the dream". You know the one...14 days a month and $120,000 a year...that one. He told me how to get started (and now I wish I had kept his "customer information") and that "it beats working for a living".

Well after hearing that, I knew I had to get started and I had to get to the airlines quick.

After doing this for almost a year now (March 3rd, I think...maybe the 2nd....was my 1st lesson) and reading about Furloughs and the $18k first year FO pay... I think I might be more content flying single pilot night freight. Actually, if I could make good money flight instructing...

Ideally, I'd love to have something where I could be home every day/night and sleep in my own bed. Plus, having just gotten married (and in the first six months, I've seen my wife a total of 29 days including the honeymoon), I'm excited about starting a family and kids and such. So I want to make enough money to support the family, but be home enough to be a good dad too.

The airlines may not be for me, but I'm not ruling them out either. At this point, I'll take anything just to get my foot in the door...once I'm there, I'll decide.

But if all goes well this summer, I may end up giving the minitours (golf) a try again too...I always enjoyed that and if I do well enough, I could just buy a 421 or Navajo or something...

-mini

 

[skyaddict]

I sort of slowly gravitated to the airline world by way of part-time instructing, full-time instructing for good money (Bay Area in the late 90s, one of the few places that was possible I think), and then finally decided in early 2001 it was then or never. Because I was a career changer, I actually intended to make a career at my regional, which happened to have the best contract around (now slightly overtaken by Comair after they struck for it). And I was hoping I'd one day live a life of being a senior captain based at home flying nothing but day trips or stand-ups. However, instead I ended up never upgrading, commuted 3 1/2 years as a jumpseater to uncommutable multi-day trips, and spent lots of nights in crashpads and often dumpy hotels. (BTW, not disillusioned, as I didn't expect to be handed a silver platter, plus the flying and crews were fun as h*ll.) As for jumpseat and travel bennies, they are getting kind of pointless now that airlines have taken to giving seats away below cost.

Without some sort of national seniority system, the pilot industry is turning into a sort of circus whereby everyone ends up being a temp worker, like a band of travelling musicians. A carrier grows rapidly, then furloughs or goes bust, the flotsam jumps to the bottom of another seniority list, and the pattern repeats itself. In what other industry do you have this madness. In every other industry you have lateral transfer. That would add a lot of leverage to the cogs in the wheel, IMHO. Oh well, it won't happen in my lifetime, and after my lifetime, pilots will probably have given away to technicians monitoring near total automation. That said, like most of my fellow fools, I still refuse to work a regular job.

 

[Goose Egg]

To fly. And eat. As long as I'm doing both, I'm happy.

-Goose

 

[smellthejeta]

I got into it because flying back and forth for school (in the back seat) sure beat anything I ever studied in class. Six years and thousands of dollars later, I have come to the conclusion that flying is no longer a viable *career*. To spin what an earlier poster said, flying is a great job but a lousy career. If there were mechansims that allowed for the lateral transfer of pay and seniority and whatnot, I would reconsider my opinion. Yes, lateral transfers within corporate do exist, but you just don't have the volume of jobs that you do with the airlines, and it still is a good old boy club. If somebody wants to make a case that corporate is easier to break into than I think it is, I won't argue with you, but there still is nothing from stopping the corporation from selling the plane out from under you in a downturn. I've also seen many Part 91 flying jobs that aren't much better than on demand 135, so it just goes to show that nothing is perfect.

 

[hawg2hawk]

See, now this just confirms what I always suspected, namely that most kids (no offense to my brother old farts that answered), both nowdays and when I was one are much more forward thinking than I. When I was of a formative age, pay, retirement, and QOL in general were non issues as long as the thing went fast and could turn upside down more than once, and on purpose.
Thanks for all the responses.

 

[DC4boy]

Reason I DID NOT choose the airlines; I LOVE TO FLY AIRPLANES

 

[CaSyndrm]

Airlines, because it looks cool and chicks dig it.
Corporate, because my golf clubs and surf board go with me everywhere.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Airlines, because it looks cool and chicks dig it.
Corporate, because my golf clubs and surf board go with me everywhere.

I hope you're kidding. Surfing and golf - okay - more power to you. Flying an airliner is not cool and chicks don't give a hoot. You might as well try to pick up a chick in a mini-van.
I heard this quote long ago but after 17 years in this business, I can attest to it's truth:
"The only people who are impressed by pilots are other pilots and little boys."

 

[FN FAL]

Without some sort of national seniority system, the pilot industry is turning into a sort of circus whereby everyone ends up being a temp worker, like a band of travelling musicians. A carrier grows rapidly, then furloughs or goes bust, the flotsam jumps to the bottom of another seniority list, and the pattern repeats itself. In what other industry do you have this madness. In every other industry you have lateral transfer. That would add a lot of leverage to the cogs in the wheel, IMHO. Oh well, it won't happen in my lifetime, and after my lifetime, pilots will probably have given away to technicians monitoring near total automation. That said, like most of my fellow fools, I still refuse to work a regular job.

What other industry are you talking about? Name one industry where you can just walk into a factory, police department, fire department or what have you and be senior to some person already working in that place? Bet you can't name one.

If a non-union or union factory closes it's doors and the workers are offered jobs at some other plant, they take what's available at the new plant and like it...nothing more. And to top it off, they have to apply for them jobs and get hired...it's not like life in workforce is a government sponsered welfare program.

The only way you will ever see people being hired for vacant positions at the airlines based on qualifications as opposed to seniority, is vote out the unions.

That's the only situation where a guy could be laid off at one job and then wander in off the street and take the food off of some other guys plate.

I worked in United Paperworkers International Union...we had locals. If you came from outside the local, you were the bottom turd on the totem pole.

I suppose at some dump where they use illegal aliens to debone chickens you could come in off the street and be lead chicken de-boner or maybe the de-boner chicken second assistant supervisior...but even non-union places have documented rules on who gets what.

After all, how would you feel if you were a minority and someone "forgot" to ask you to reply on a company posted job vacancy and then they went out and hired a white guy to fill it. You'd probably sue, wouldn't ya?

 

[mayday1]

What other industry are you talking about? Name one industry where you can just walk into a factory, police department, fire department or what have you and be senior to some person already working in that place? Bet you can't name one.

happens all the time in business, corporate America... people are hired based on their experience, educations, etc. and paid accordingly, often into "senior" positions. Our "seniority number" is our experience and that follows us wherever we go.

 

[wrxpilot]

No airline aspirations here. I know too many people in the airlines that are unhappy and miserable (yet absolutely love aviation). My aspirations are to keep my office job and do the CFI thing for awhile. I actually can't wait to teach, I think it'd be awesome to share my passion for flying.

Eventually I'd like to do charter/freight, and then a fractional. Actually if I could find a good air ambulance job out of Alaska or somewhere in the Northwest I'd be happy. I'm 27, no family, with no plans or desires of it either.

 

[TurboS7]

Chicks just dig money and how fast they can get it from your pocket to theirs. I love to travel and I love to fly. I also enjoy working in a close enviroment as a team. Schedule is nice but charter is better. I would love to have a schedule with great pay but now days that just does not seem to be around. I have a globe and I love to sit down with my kids after a trip and show them all the places on the globe I have been during the last few days. I have dreams I would love to fly a 747 that will take me non-stop to places like Hong Kong, Bangkok, and the like. I have even considered given up my senority and getting with a freighter the last days of my career just so I can expericence my dream before I have to retire. Life is interesting to say the least but you only go around one time, get it all while you can.

 

[TurboS7]

BTW out of the ten most sexiest jobs the first choice was fireman, the second flight attendant-can you believe that. Pilots were not anywhere on the list, we all have too big of bellies from drinking too much good German beer.

 

[snowman]

I just want to fly. I don't want to pay for it anymore...

Hmmm

snowman

 

[skyaddict]

"No airline aspirations here. I know too many people in the airlines that are unhappy and miserable (yet absolutely love aviation). My aspirations are to keep my office job and do the CFI thing for awhile. I actually can't wait to teach, I think it'd be awesome to share my passion for flying."

That is actually why I stayed out of the airline game a bit longer than it was for my own good. I was making fairly good ($45K or so) money instructing and for a while thought I'd either become a career full or part-time professional GA instructor. After instructing happily for almost 4 years, I jumped ship to a regional in the spring of 2001 just in time to get on the tail of the hiring boom, but late enough to lose my chance to get to the next building block- a quick upgrade and turbine PIC. I had actually planned on getting on with a very robust regional with a great conytract and sticking it out the rest of my career there. But right seated ever since, I am now getting furloughed thanks to being a tail boomer. As stressed and anxious with post-911 industry turbulence as I've been, I have never been "miserable," but I know many co-workers who have been.

I absolutely love to fly, and going from recips to swept wing jets adds a whole new dimension of things to learn, and has never bored me. Making speed adjustments with a 757 2 1/2 miles ahead and behind you while configuring on the Expressway Visual approach curving around Shea stadium to NY LaGuardia is something that I would never have gotten to experience had I stuck with GA, I am thankful for such opprtunities. Quick turns actually get to be fun. And it's always a blast finally getting comfy in a new airplane (invariable a couple weeks *after* IOE!) when you transition, even though firehose learning is no fun at all and I sure wish I could learn it at the liesurly pace of good ol' GA days.

However, love to fly and desire to be paid what one is worth are two different things. I think those of us who love to fly should never lose sight of the latter, no matter what our niche is. If you stay at the GA level, I applaud you for striving for professional excellence right there. Returning "home" to GA, instructing is my ultimate backup if all the various glass ceilings in this industry keep me down. It pains me when I hear some people refer to their past as "just" instructing, or some airline colleagues say how they "hated" instructing. Not having any benefits or vacation days was a pain, but for me instructing was a blast and some of my fondest flying memories and I would never feel bad to do it again.

 

[skyaddict]

"What other industry are you talking about? Name one industry where you can just walk into a factory, police department, fire department or what have you and be senior to some person already working in that place? Bet you can't name one."

Hmm, how about IT professionals, engineers, accountants, doctors, lawyers, writers, directors, producers, public relations specialists- pretty much any white collar job- to name but a few jobs where that happens day in, day out. Pretty much any non-unionized profession. I am not saying the answer is get rid of the unions, nor do I think there will be a national seniority system in any of our lifetimes (look how messy it is negotiating a simple seniority merger between two ALPA companies) but the fact is that the lack of any portability of seniority removes from most pilot labor the option of going to greener pastures.

 

[Swede]

I heard this quote long ago but after 17 years in this business, I can attest to it's truth:
"The only people who are impressed by pilots are other pilots and little boys."

Lol this is true for the most part. I did a few airshows while in the AF, all static displays. A couple of situations stand out and reinforce what you are saying.

Grand Junction, CO. Static display of 2 kick-a$$ combat-ready F-15C Eagles. We watched, a bit dismayed, when all the hot young females gravitated to the "pretty" homebuilt biplanes, the stunt planes, etc. Our fighters attracted primarily super-dorky teenage boys. I'll never forget one kid who knew vastly more about the airplane than I did. He knew every tail number in our squadron, and every name associated with each jet. Wanted to know if "Mongo's" F-15 was here. No, Mongo is back in Florida. He had several advanced questions about the DEECs, the M61 gun, and other really obscure bits of trivia. He was dissappointed that we didn't know the HP of the hydraulic motor that spun the gun. We finally told him to buzz off, and we commiserated on our lack of success with the girls. They weren't impressed by any of the military hardware at the show.

I also remember when "Top Gun" was an uber-hit. This meant the F-14's attracted all the dorks. They were 6-deep around the TomGrapes. That phase lasted about 2 years.

My favored visitors/questioners were without a doubt the old fellows from WW2. Some old guy would slowly walk up and want to see inside the cockpit. He'd shake his head after viewing it, and comparing it to his P51 or Hellcat fighter from the Big One. When we found out their backgrounds, it was our turn to become awestruck dorks.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Why the airlines? I have no clue. Probably because I was always drawn to it as a little kid going flying to Grandma's house.

All I know is that it's sometimes good, sometimes bad. But overall I'm having fun and am fairly happy. As I start making more money, and eventually upgrade, it will be even better.

It's sure not for everyone. I think sometimes people make decisons on perceptions, rather than reality. Those are the ones who aren't happy.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

"The only people who are impressed by pilots are other pilots and little boys."

Sounds like the perfect career for Michael Jackson.