Why flight schools are getting rid of C1

[FlyingToIST]

I can see the trend in the aviation schools that they are slowly but surely getting rid of C152. I know that Cessna didn't make any of this great trainer for two decades, but it should not be too hard to find a good used one. So, what's the reason? The insurance? Are they getting costly to run?

As a person who got his training in C152 and moved to 4 seater for instrument training I would like to find out. I also intend to start a flight school and looks like a C152 might be a good and economical trainer for people who are trying to save some money on this..

Thanks....

 

[bigD]

Hmmm....personally I haven't noticed a decrease in the number of 150's or 152's used for training around here. The fleet's getting older, and thus they're certainly not getting any cheaper to maintain, but I'm not sure that there's much alternative out there in that cost range.

If you're noticing schools getting rid of 152's, what are they replacing them with?

 

[FlyingToIST]

Mostly they are being replaced by C172s SP or Rs.

 

[bigD]

Interesting. I'm seeing a proliferation of R and SP model 172's, but most people I know flying them are training for their instrument, or just building time and want to impress their friends with a nicer plane. Especially with the economy around here in the crapper, most private students can't afford to train in a plane costing $100/hr.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing training in a 152 as long as you and your instructor aren't too big.

 

[stillaboo]

$100/hr for a 172?! I flew brand new 172's (SP, R, beats me) wet w/ an instructor for about $85 in '00 in FL. Inflation hasn't gone up that much. Has insurance?

For triple digits, you should get 2 engines!

-Boo!

 

[bigD]

Holy crap stillaboo - that's an amazing price! The school I was thinking of charges $100 for the R model and $105 for the SP. Wet rates, no instructor.

Just down the street, R models are $125 wet! That's disgusting.

 

[Snakum]

Ya know ... I've been agonizing over that one too. Since the new insurance rates have hit most everyone by now, the rental rates on newer Skyhawks (and older ones in some places) in my area (five different FBOs) have gone thru the roof.

What's really sad about it is this ... on an average weekend you can drop in and see four or five CFIs just sitting and BS'ing. No students. I have a very bad feeling that by the time I get my CFI there will be a glut of instructors and a lack of students, if what I see now is any indication. I have a feeling that new student starts are gonna go thru the floor in the next few years, which is good for those already close to Regional/Freight mins (less competition ... eventually), but bad for those of us who need a year or so instructing.



Minh

 

[TheAmazingRando]

shoot...the school I teach at only charges 88 bucks wet for our R models. Lowest in this neck of the woods(MI). The FBO down the taxiway charges $85 for a P model and $105 (I think) for a 172RG. Personally, I think we have the better deal.

 

[52vincent]

Gotcha beat $77/hour wet for the SP, however I personally don't like it we have several nicknames for the "SP" ; S*#T pile for one,Severly Pampered. Anyway, there I go ranting again......

 

[Speedtree]

Snakum,

Don't worry too much about the economy or airline industry. There will always be students wanting to fly. Just like there are always people wanting to take Golf lessons or whatever else there is. At one of the local Golf courses it costs $50 for 1/2 hour.

Make yourself the best CFI you can be, treating your customers the best you can, giving them the best instruction tailored for each student, and you will do o.k.

Work hard at it. Market yourself and be creative. It's not easy but it can be done.

Best wishes for you and your future.

 

[Whirlwind]

We recently lost all our C-152s due to hail damage...

The insurance company totaled them out and they are not being replaced with more C-152s. Instead, they are buying C-172SPs to replace them.

Shame, because there are a few people who really could use the $20/hr less the C-152 costs.

Jason

 

[RedheadCFI]

What a shame, I hate to hear about 152's getting sold and scrapped. The 152 is the best VFR training airplane ever! I guess I can say that cause I'm 5'7" and 150lbs. The school I'm at had about 15 152's but now we picked up 7 new R models and ditched 7 old 152's. I hated to see them go, now we're doing most of the VFR work in the OLD 172's. I sure wish cessna would start making those 2 seater go carts again! Ok, I'm done praising the legendary 152. -Nick

 

[Whirlwind]

What a shame, I hate to hear about 152's getting sold and scrapped. The 152 is the best VFR training airplane ever! I guess I can say that cause I'm 5'7" and 150lbs. The school I'm at had about 15 152's but now we picked up 7 new R models and ditched 7 old 152's. I hated to see them go, now we're doing most of the VFR work in the OLD 172's. I sure wish cessna would start making those 2 seater go carts again! Ok, I'm done praising the legendary 152. -Nick

Yea, they are otherwise very nice planes, but it would cost more to fix them than they are worth.

Same reason Cessna isn't building more 152s... They cost about 80% as much to build, but cannot be sold for much more than half the price as a 172.

It makes zero sense to make more of them, from the financial point of view anyway.

Jason

 

[CFI'er]

Students/CFI's Are Geting Bigger

The increasing size (weight/height) is the real reason that most schools and FBO's are going more for the C172's. Let’s face it; it is a bigger market for a four place aircraft than for a two placer. I for one am too big for that little C152. By the time you add the CFI and a full tank, the envelope is out the door. For a few dollars more, I vote for the size of aircraft and comfort.

 

[RedheadCFI]

RIP Cessna 152's

Yes.. I know that all the numbers point towards the scrapping of 152's but those little birds are so much fun to fly. I mean where else can you get the feeling of a kite with a lycoming strapped on the front?
I know when I'm at work I like to get out of the RG's now and then to enjoy flying VFR with a new student pilot in those little birds. I'm going to miss the 152's when they're taken out of our fleet and I hope I'm not the only one that does!
-Nick

 

[Airpiraterob]

i can understand it...i mean c'mon with the increased portions at McDonalds and everywhere else of course two people arent going to fit in the 152 anymore. look at when it was designed....yeah...during the granola craze. c'mon everyone was smoke-happy and Yoga and martial arts hit bigtime. now with smoking going away people are turning to the new supersized meals to feed their munchies and the martial arts is all on video game.

wasnt too long ago (3 years?) when the medium now was the large then....

 

[SDdriver]

As far as insurance, YEAH big problem, after the fall of 2 of the main companies, the rates went through the roof. I think it cost around 5000 a yr to get insurance on a 172sp. about 2500yr on a 152. THat is crazy.

When I started flying, 152's were 30/hr wet 172 40/hr and a dutchess 115/hr

Now at the flight school down the road, 152 70/hr 172 115hr (SP/R/XP) dutchess 165/hr

Crazy thing, I can't even go get checked out in the dutchess cause the guys insurance requires 25 in type. Jesus, no matter that I have the multi hours I have, we want 25 in a dutchess. Amazing I can be insured to fly a 2 million dollar aircraft with couple of mil in freight on board, but I can't get insured to fly a dutchess alone? Go figure. Who do you think thought that one up?

SD

 

[KigAir]

The FBO I fly out of has 2 C172 Sp's, 1-2002 and 1- 2003, each rents for $98 per hour. Both are nice aircraft but i feel they are over rated.

 

[stillaboo]

Whatever 172 I flew in 2000 (brand new), it was called 'the cadilac of airplanes' by the instructors there. It was really nice to fly, really smooth (compared with the 1970's 172's and the 152's). Was it worth the extra $? Well, I paid to use it for my long XC over Lake Oakachobee and paid the extra to use if for my PPL ride. I'd rent a caddy for the examiner any day of the week.

'Course my ride now is way more pimp than any 172. Nothing says pimp like FADEC!

-Boo!

 

[Khirsah]

It all depends on where you are. We charge $109/hr for a C172S Millennium Edition.

Guys on the other side of town charge $125/hr for a C172S. You can purchase an instructor there for another $45/hr. Yep. That's right, $170/hr for instruction in a 172.

But as to 152s. Dunno about other areas, but here we only have 1. We've got 4 172s. We'd put more 152s on line but no one rents them. On a good day we'll put 6 to 8 hours on our 172s and our Archer. We'll put about 3 to 5 on our Arrow. On a good day we'll put 1 to 2 hours on our 152.

I guess with our customers when given the choice between a 4 seat airplane with KLN89Bs or KLN94s, one or two-axis autopilots, and more speed for $105 to $109 or a 2 seat airplane with one navcom that cruises about as fast as I drive at $75/hr, they're willing to pay more for what they get. Not that the 152's not a great plane. It's just....who can resist the big flashy blinky gadgets?

 

[JeffSKDTW]

Not that the 152's not a great plane. It's just....who can resist the big flashy blinky gadgets?

Not me. I did my private and instrument training in a 2003 172R....call me a sucka.

 

[U-I pilot]

i did most of my primary in 152's however during my training the FBO sold the 152's andnow uses all 172's. The P model was cheaper so thats what i flew. Went back to check on rental rates and the R's were 120/hr wet!!! Then when i humored them about asking about the checkout the instructor was 48/hour and it was a 2 hour checkout. I found a place on the same airport with older 172's (M model) going for 68/hr wet. Money much better spent i'd say. I cant believe what some people charge for not so updated equiptment.

 

[de727ups]

The mighty 152...

I'm starting a flight school with an A152 aerobat. Just got it decked out with an IFR approach approved Garmin 430. It will sell for $60/hr. I'm 160 lbs and find it's performance with someone my size to be just fine (2000 msl airport). Will use it for IFR training, too. Can see why some don't like it cause of it's size...or should I say, their size.... It's cheap to maintain and cheap to fly. Insurance was way more than it's worth....they wanted $4500 a year for a 30K hull and one mil liability. I opted for liability only, ($1650), since the plane is payed for, and will ask for renters insurance to solo (300/yr) unless you agree to pay for any damage you cause.

I wouldn't touch a new 172, since a late 70's model that is upgraded can do the same job. Some people just like new planes....that's fine if they want to pay the price.

 

[Dean]

For what its worth. I paid $80 for a wet plane and a good instructor while flying in a 1978 (i think) C172. The solo wet rate is $55. This rates are still current. If it would have been over a hundred, I guess i still would be wondering what flying was really like.

 

[JimNtexas]

The OMF Symphony and Liberty XL2 for around $140K seem like potentially great trainers compared to a $165k Skyhawk.