Why do you PUT-UP with this industry??

[jetbluedog]

Please explain to me why you guys put-up with this industry as a career?? It really couldn't be any more pathetic and uglier than it is. Why even venture into this career? What is it really worth to be able to say you "are a pilot for _______ airlines"?? Is it to impress your social group and to impress family relatives? Here are some examples off of the top of my head:

1) Horrible pay for your responsibilities.

2) Terrible living conditions in high-cost-of-living areas.

3) Pathetic schedules that often make you work 10 - 14 hour days, but only PAID for the flight time (You do the math: time at work divided by hourly flight pay = MINIMUM wage or less in many cases, then figure in cost-of-living where you live......totally laughable)

4) Inability to purchase a home and to start a family.

5) Inability to treat a wife with life's respect and give her the quality time she deserves.

6) Pay-For-Training. Competing with commrads who are willing to PFT.

7) "Living out of boxes" for the unforseeable future.

8) Piss-poor upper management that show ZERO respect for their pilot group.

9) End-less, red-taped filled union negotiations and outrageous union dues. (Take-home after taxes...appx $700.....then pay your union dues - $45/$50 twice a month).

10) Living pay-check to pay-check just to wear a fancy pilot uniform around the country.

11) Having your parents brag to their social group and relatives that "You are a pilot for ____ airlines." So they can believe you are making big-bucks and are successful.

12) Eating crappy meals throughout the day and having limited time for physical exercise. Even after getting home you are "too emotionally drained" to work out.

13) Having a pathetic outlook/future for landing that "Glamerous major airline job".

14) Bankruptcies - enough said

15) Crash pads - enough said

16) Commuting - enough said

17) Reserve and junior manning - enough said

18) Knowing your college buddies who went to into other degrees are making 6 figures and are saving loads of money in 401k plans.

19) If you REALLY love to fly?? Then why the "F" are you flying for a regional airline? Is regional flying truely, "Love for flying"??? I make $100K a year and fly all I want in SR20's, Mooney's, and Beech A36's with my wife to extravegant locations for meals, mini-vacations, golf......now that is true "Love of flying".

20) (I've got more if you want me to list them.....)

And also, why is it that MANY of you are unwilling to accept that fact that this is REALITY. You keep talking-it-up, making excuses, and "glamorizing-it" because of the inability of your mind to accept the truth as it is. Your job and life couldn't be any closer to slave-labor in many people's opinion.

When are you "glamerous-pilots" going to start putting your feet down and demand a respectable career?? Not in my life time as long as UND and Embry Riddle keep pumping out young punks with "Daddy's money" and willing to settle with what the regionals currently offer for compensation (peanuts).

 

[Realyman]

I agree 100%!!!! But you forget, the airline job is like a part-time job. It provides flight benefits, medical, dental, & a 401K. Best of all it lets me get my fix on flying and have a lucrative side job/hobby.

If flying did not allow me a lot of time off, I am not sure I would stay in it for the long haul. Plus, it is an easy job for the most part & the social part is fun too!

I would recommend it to anyone who wants to do it. But also, don't put all eggs in one basket. The job could be gone in a moments notice.

Peace out...from Shroth

 

[The_Russian]

Couldn't agree with you more.

What amazes me even more is that ANYONE can be a pilot today. The FAA and airlines have NO standardized competency or intelligence testing. There is no physical test either. Any fat guy who barely graduated high school can live his dream. However, the money has nothing to do with it. Anyone with even fair credit can get an education loan. Daddy's money does not apply anymore. I paid for ERAU, DCA, FSI, FIT, and Gulfstream with Key loan. It was the only way I can fly because my family has no money to give. Most people don't have that advantage, but there are the few.

Personally I hate the airline industry and I am putting resumes out internationally and at aircraft manufacturers. This whole situation has become out of control. When most of us have a combined total debt of 100K, how can you pay us 20 bucks an hour. It is going to come to the point where people stop learning to fly because the pay doesn't outweigh the costs of training and college (worst case scenario).

As an aerobatic instructor I find the entire industry to be BORING. All I do is sit there and fly straight. Then I try not to pass out from exaustion because I am flying eight legs on a sixteen hour duty day.

When are you "glamerous-pilots" going to start putting your feet down and demand a respectable career??

I will assist in anyway possible to have an industry wide sick out/strike. If anyone wants to put this together then lets talk. As a 1900 FO I deserve AT LEAST 30K a year, especially in Ft. Lauderdale. You RJ FO's need to be making at least 50-60K a year for the size aircraft.

I also think we should dump these worthless unions. IBT sux and so does ALPA. If they had any respect for us, they wouldn't allow companies to give pay cuts. They would also develop industry standard pay minimums by aircraft type that is RESPECTABLE.

You might see me in a 737 one day. But for now, I'm trying to peace out of this worthless crap.

 

[The_Russian]

I agree 100%!!!! But you forget, the airline job is like a part-time job. It provides flight benefits, medical, dental, & a 401K. Best of all it lets me get my fix on flying and have a lucrative side job/hobby.

If flying did not allow me a lot of time off, I am not sure I would stay in it for the long haul. Plus, it is an easy job for the most part & the social part is fun too!

I would recommend it to anyone who wants to do it. But also, don't put all eggs in one basket. The job could be gone in a moments notice.

Peace out...from Shroth

Stop smoking crack and posting. Please. All I want to do on my time off is rest. I know crack makes you happy, but I would need all Harlem has to enjoy the disgusting treatment we are recieving.

 

[viper548]

1) Horrible pay for your responsibilities. It's nice to have a job that does have some responsibility, although it would be nice to make a decent living

2) Terrible living conditions in high-cost-of-living areas. It takes $90K/yr to qualify for the median home in California.

3) Pathetic schedules that often make you work 10 - 14 hour days, but only PAID for the flight time (You do the math: time at work divided by hourly flight pay = MINIMUM wage or less in many cases, then figure in cost-of-living where you live......totally laughable)

I worked 26 hour days in the Air Force on a regular basis. I couldn't tell ya what the marines and army work. Many office jobs require that many hours a day....no overtime if your salry

4) Inability to purchase a home and to start a family. Poor wages doesn't mean you can't start a family.

5) Inability to treat a wife with life's respect and give her the quality time she deserves. I'd rather be gone 18 days and have 12 off than work 9-5 during the week and only get 8 days off. Schedules can be had with more than 12 days off.

6) Pay-For-Training. Competing with commrads who are willing to PFT. That sucks hard.

7) "Living out of boxes" for the unforseeable future. Some airlines still have decent upgrade times

8) Piss-poor upper management that show ZERO respect for their pilot group. Not all management is that bad...Hit or miss depending on which airline.

9) End-less, red-taped filled union negotiations and outrageous union dues. (Take-home after taxes...appx $700.....then pay your union dues - $45/$50 twice a month).
Skywest is non-union and our pay is right up there with Eagle's CRJ-700 pay. Take into account how many hours worked per month, how long it takes to upgrade and subtract the union dues and see that it's pretty close.
10) Living pay-check to pay-check just to wear a fancy pilot uniform around the country. You could go back to flight instructing and lose the uniform, but keep the paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.

11) Having your parents brag to their social group and relatives that "You are a pilot for ____ airlines." So they can believe you are making big-bucks and are successful.
It's the prestiege of being an airline pilot that they're bragging about. They probably wouldn't brag if you were a drug runner and made tons of money.
12) Eating crappy meals throughout the day and having limited time for physical exercise. Even after getting home you are "too emotionally drained" to work out.
Bring a cooler with you if your that concerend.
13) Having a pathetic outlook/future for landing that "Glamerous major airline job".
Is there another job you'd rather do?

14) Bankruptcies - enough said It happens in every sector.

15) Crash pads - enough said Agreed...it sucks, you could move though.

16) Commuting - enough said

17) Reserve and junior manning - enough said Junior manning is overtime

18) Knowing your college buddies who went to into other degrees are making 6 figures and are saving loads of money in 401k plans.
If they ever get a company jet, they'll think of you first when they need a pilot.
19) If you REALLY love to fly?? Then why the "F" are you flying for a regional airline? Is regional flying truely, "Love for flying"??? I make $100K a year and fly all I want in SR20's, Mooney's, and Beech A36's with my wife to extravegant locations for meals, mini-vacations, golf......now that is true "Love of flying".
If I found a job that paid that much to do that I'd do it too.
20) (I've got more if you want me to list them.....)

And also, why is it that MANY of you are unwilling to accept that fact that this is REALITY. You keep talking-it-up, making excuses, and "glamorizing-it" because of the inability of your mind to accept the truth as it is. Your job and life couldn't be any closer to slave-labor in many people's opinion.

When are you "glamerous-pilots" going to start putting your feet down and demand a respectable career?? Not in my life time as long as UND and Embry Riddle keep pumping out young punks with "Daddy's money" and willing to settle with what the regionals currently offer for compensation (peanuts).

Not everyone wants to be a doctor, lawyer, businessman, etc. Everyone who decides to become a professional pilot knows what they're getting into. If it's that horrible, don't do it.
I agree that something needs to change as far as pay is concerened. It's sad that senior flight attendants make more than new FO's.

 

[Magneto]

Why do you always type in bold?

 

[Ted Striker]

What are you bitching about, you're at Jetblue! You are at one of the better things going right now and you have the guts to start this thread? Nice.

Please explain to me why you guys put-up with this industry as a career?? It really couldn't be any more pathetic and uglier than it is. Why even venture into this career? What is it really worth to be able to say you "are a pilot for _______ airlines"?? Is it to impress your social group and to impress family relatives? Here are some examples off of the top of my head:

1) Horrible pay for your responsibilities.

2) Terrible living conditions in high-cost-of-living areas.

3) Pathetic schedules that often make you work 10 - 14 hour days, but only PAID for the flight time (You do the math: time at work divided by hourly flight pay = MINIMUM wage or less in many cases, then figure in cost-of-living where you live......totally laughable)

4) Inability to purchase a home and to start a family.

5) Inability to treat a wife with life's respect and give her the quality time she deserves.

6) Pay-For-Training. Competing with commrads who are willing to PFT.

7) "Living out of boxes" for the unforseeable future.

8) Piss-poor upper management that show ZERO respect for their pilot group.

9) End-less, red-taped filled union negotiations and outrageous union dues. (Take-home after taxes...appx $700.....then pay your union dues - $45/$50 twice a month).

10) Living pay-check to pay-check just to wear a fancy pilot uniform around the country.

11) Having your parents brag to their social group and relatives that "You are a pilot for ____ airlines." So they can believe you are making big-bucks and are successful.

12) Eating crappy meals throughout the day and having limited time for physical exercise. Even after getting home you are "too emotionally drained" to work out.

13) Having a pathetic outlook/future for landing that "Glamerous major airline job".

14) Bankruptcies - enough said

15) Crash pads - enough said

16) Commuting - enough said

17) Reserve and junior manning - enough said

18) Knowing your college buddies who went to into other degrees are making 6 figures and are saving loads of money in 401k plans.

19) If you REALLY love to fly?? Then why the "F" are you flying for a regional airline? Is regional flying truely, "Love for flying"??? I make $100K a year and fly all I want in SR20's, Mooney's, and Beech A36's with my wife to extravegant locations for meals, mini-vacations, golf......now that is true "Love of flying".

20) (I've got more if you want me to list them.....)

And also, why is it that MANY of you are unwilling to accept that fact that this is REALITY. You keep talking-it-up, making excuses, and "glamorizing-it" because of the inability of your mind to accept the truth as it is. Your job and life couldn't be any closer to slave-labor in many people's opinion.

When are you "glamerous-pilots" going to start putting your feet down and demand a respectable career?? Not in my life time as long as UND and Embry Riddle keep pumping out young punks with "Daddy's money" and willing to settle with what the regionals currently offer for compensation (peanuts).

 

[Clyde]

Why do I do it?

I took a gamble and it paid off. I had my pick of 3 airlines and went to the one I thought could provide me with the best job security, good pay, and a place to retire from without making anymore career changes.

When I got hired, it was late in 2000. A lot of my friends thought I was a little crazy for choosing freight over two passenger majors. I heard comments like "United is really the place to be" and "you should go for the daytime schedules and flight attendants."

Needless to say, we can safely say where I would be had I chosen the PAX route. My friends who called me crazy are either furloughed and/or flying somewhere else for a huge reductin in pay. I offered to walk in a resume and LOR for a friend of mine when we started hiring again recently, but he didn't want to "wear brown" and work at night. That is ok, it's his choice and I was only offering.

Anyways, why do I do it? I enjoy not working at a desk. I enjoy the variey of the schedules and destinations. I enjoy the fact that I can fly domestic or international. Yes, the hours are tough, the body takes abuse, and the dues paid to get here were very high, but I am compensated well to put up with it. But, I was successful and I feel very blessed to be here. Not a day goes by that I don't thank God for where I am, because I realize it could be much worse.

Would I still be flying if my fate was otherwise? It's hard to say. I really enjoy flying for a living, but life has bills to pay and some flying gigs don't provide the money. Some provide the money, but you never get a chance to spend it because you are always gone. I think if things were different and I was very unhappy somewhere else, then I would probably look for a new career, I can only complain about something for so long.

I really hope the industry gets better for all of us out there. For those who are in the trenches toughing it out for a better job someday, I give you a lot of credit, it was tough a decade ago and it's even tougher now.

 

[Afixedwing]

fly all I want in SR20's, Mooney's, and Beech A36's with my wife to extravegant locations for meals, mini-vacations, golf......now that is true "Love of flying".

Those are some pretty boring aircraft dude.

My question to you is:
If you despise us as much as the tone of your post seems to indicate, why are you wasting your time on this website?

 

[slowto250]

Hey Blue Boy,

Just what exactly, did you do to earn a living between acquiring your ratings and earning your ((100K ?) right seat in the Bus ? Not everyone here has led such a charmed life as you.

 

[cargojunkie]

what other profession will you get 60-70 grand in your 5th or 6th year? Work with a min of 12 days off a month and get drunk at hotels every night on the road. Sounds like a really bad job to me. I know sitting on your butt all day pushing buttons and talking on the radio gets to be a bit much.

 

[front9]

Look at me, I'm at JetBlue, Look at me Look at me.

You come here, bash good people who scratched and clawed their way to the middle, then talk about how good you have it. Did you just go from the street to Jet Blue you POS.

Looked at your EMB 170 & 190 rates lately? And you want to talk about the good life.

 

[Alchemy]

Could we please lay off the fat rj pilots who barely graduated high school?

 

[jumppilot]

When are you "glamerous-pilots" going to start putting your feet down and demand a respectable career?? Not in my life time as long as UND and Embry Riddle keep pumping out young punks with "Daddy's money" and willing to settle with what the regionals currently offer for compensation (peanuts).

Why? Because people like you show us we can get to a jetBlue, FedEx or Southwest and have job security and a future.

You are at jetBlue and you're bitching? You're a little bitch. Think about all the 10 year B1900 pilots before you open your big mouth.

 

[The_Russian]

I believe this board has determined that jetbluedog does not actually work at jet blue.

Front9,

Take that mesa crap off my avitar and get your own. How dare you disgrace the USSR and the 1900 like that.

 

[slowto250]

Could we please lay off the fat rj pilots who barely graduated high school?

Whoooooohaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!

 

[jumppilot]

I believe this board has determined that jetbluedog does not actually work at jet blue.

Front9,

Take that mesa crap off my avitar and get your own. How dare you disgrace the USSR and the 1900 like that.

Where did you get that avitar, and are you from the former Soviet Union?

 

[The_Russian]

I made it with Microsoft Picture It 7. No I'm not. Just love Russian aircraft. AND PLEASE GET THAT HORRIBLE MESA CRAP OFF MY AVITAR.

Why does it always have to be about mesa???

 

[jetbluedog]

FO at Blue

I am an FO for Jetblue Boys. Sorry to tell ya.......My uncle works here, got me the job. I went from part 135 for a couple of years to Blue......no pathetic regional flying. Just because I didn't do it doesn't mean I can bitch about it.

 

[viper548]

Could we please lay off the fat rj pilots who barely graduated high school?

HEY, I resemble that remark!!! I did good in college though

 

[The_Russian]

I stand corrected. But there was some confusion in the past about if you were actually employed or not.

 

[viper548]

I am an FO for Jetblue Boys. Sorry to tell ya.......My uncle works here, got me the job. I went from part 135 for a couple of years to Blue......no pathetic regional flying. Just because I didn't do it doesn't mean I can bitch about it.

It's not the bitching that's the problem. It's more the boasting that your uncle helped you skip the regionals.

 

[slowto250]

I think I know what you meant to say, but....

Quote by JetBlueDog: " Just because I didn't do it, doesn't mean I can bitch about it. "

Hmmm.... I think we can finally agree on something.

 

[BigPappa]

I call Bullsh1t on Jetblue dog! Can't meet Jetblue's mins. if you've worked for a part 135. You need 1000 hrs of aircraft weighing more than 20,000 lb. Gross Weight. NOW WAY YOU GOT THAT FLYING PART 135!

Just another wannabee pilot!

PS. Guys if you're not happy you can always become a flight attendant; grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[slowto250]

Easy there Pappa, I fly under part 135 regs. Last I checked my MTOW was @ 70,000 lbs. Not sure why BlueDog admitted to the nepotism issue, but maybe I will have to cut him some slack for honesty. Still, he should adopt a "walk a mile in my shoes" mentality, while perusing the forums, IMO.

 

[BE99chick]

5) Inability to treat a wife with life's respect and give her the quality time she deserves.


Hey, jetblueDORK, why don't you just quit spending time on this site? That way maybe you can treat your "wife with life's respect and give her the quality time she deserves."?????????

If you do all your posting on overnights, why don't you just logoff and call the wifey????

Aahhh, why don't you go back to your room and play with your EMP gun or go dream up some more stupid conspiracies?

 

[BigPappa]

Now BE99 Chick does have a point. Btw I was mistaken about the 135 comment (netjets). JetBlue dog might actually be a Jetblue pilot, or is he still just a wannabee?

 

[TonyC]

Please explain to me why you guys put-up with this industry as a career?? It really couldn't be any more pathetic and uglier than it is.

...

Is it to impress your social group and to impress family relatives? Here are some examples off of the top of my head:


9) End-less, red-taped filled union negotiations and outrageous union dues. (Take-home after taxes...appx $700.....then pay your union dues - $45/$50 twice a month).

...

15) Crash pads - enough said

16) Commuting - enough said

...

20) (I've got more if you want me to list them.....)

And also, why is it that MANY of you are unwilling to accept that fact that this is REALITY. You keep talking-it-up, making excuses, and "glamorizing-it" because of the inability of your mind to accept the truth as it is.

...

Not in my life time as long as UND and Embry Riddle keep pumping out young punks with "Daddy's money" and willing to settle with what the regionals currently offer for compensation (peanuts).

Oh the irony. Something about pot/kettle/black comes to mind when we witness a JetBlue pilot speaking down to regionals. Pathetic also comes to mind.

As for "[e]nd-less, red-taped filled union negotiations," well, you obviously speak from a position of ignorance. The conditions you condemn would most assuredly be far worse, far more onerous, were it not for the representation of a collective bargaining unit.

And as for "outrageous union dues. (Take-home after taxes...appx $700.....then pay your union dues - $45/$50 twice a month)." - - well, how can I sugar coat this? You're either an ignorant fool or a brainwashed, misinformed idiot. Since you're at JetBlue, I'll guess the latter, as their anti-union propoganda machine is, from all appearances, quite fine-tuned and has gathered the following of many lambs such as yourself. You really should try to educate yourself to prevent making preposterous statements such as the above.

Crash pads? The cost of doing business and living where you want. How many bankers get to do that? Are JetBlue pilots immune to crashpads?

Commuting? The cost of doing business and living where you want. How many bankers get to do that? Do JetBlue pilots not commute?

"(I've got more if you want me to list them.....)" Yeah, me too. Some have been discussed on this forum previously and don't need to be reopened. Suffice it to say you have no credibility starting this discussion.

"You keep talking-it-up, making excuses, and "glamorizing-it" because of the inability of your mind to accept the truth as it is." Yeah, right. Glamorize cabin cleaning, won't you? Let's talk about the truth of your RJ rates.


You think it's the fault of "young punks with 'Daddy's money' and willing to settle"? Remind us again of how you got on with your dream carrier, won't you?

 

[BE99chick]

Thank you Tony C

Hey, jetblueDORK, it's me again...

Posting opinions on this forum is one thing, but calling what us plebians (look it up if you don't know what it means, but don't take too much time away from your wife) do for a living "pathetic" is going too far.

Guess what? If your "uncle" didn't get you that job at Jet Blue, you'd be right here at these "pathetic" regionals with the rest of us.

The regionals can't be all that bad just ask any of the AA flowbacks or the furloughed UAL folks at SkyWest in the right seat of the RJs now.

If the regionals are so "pathetic", what are you doing looking at the regional forum???? Gloating??? or maybe you do work at a regional. Tool.

 

[jetbluedog]

Geez. I just state some pure FACTS about regional airline life and I get called names and I'm told to "Shut-UP".

All I can say guys is, "THE TRUTH MUST REALLY HURT."

PS - I flew a Metroliner part 135 for you ignorant punks.