Why ALPA fails

[~~~^~~~]

737 Pylt - and who is JC Lawson's largest constituency in group B1?

How is it that Continental rates their own EVP? Could it just be rigged so that no regional group will ever be able to put together a majority?

Lets see what ALPA does with SkyWest.

 

[737 Pylt]

737 Pylt - and who is JC Lawson's largest constituency in group B1?

How is it that Continental rates their own EVP? Could it just be rigged so that no regional group will ever be able to put together a majority?

Lets see what ALPA does with SkyWest.

Fins, take a midol for crying out loud! The whole world is not out to get you specifically! And not everything has to be a big conspiracy towards regional alpa pilots!
I personally hope you guys get an industry leading contract. I really do. You see, the more expensive you guys become, the more flying will be shifted back to mainline! Of course it could all be shifted to Mesa!
737
Drink a beer and jump on the missus (not necessarily in that order), you'll feel better in the morning!

 

[PCL_128]

Just take a look at the new structure - go to My ALPA and it is at the bottom center of the screen.

Sigh...

Fins, please turn to page 47 of the ALPA Constitution & By-Laws. There you will find a description of the Executive Board. What you will find is that the MEC Chairman of every ALPA airline is on the Executive Board. The realignment was for the EVPs. Captain Lawson is an EVP, but that means he is on the Executive Council also. The Executive Board and Executive Council are two entirely different things with different responsibilities.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

ALPA will self distruct.

"A House Divided Against Itself can not Stand"

The real problem began when ALPA gave more authority to the S/O's and F/O's. While this may seem right, it has divided the house. Now nobody will have anything. The house will not stand.

 

[John Pennekamp]

John:
The fact that you CAN'T differentiate tells me that you suffer from little pecker syndrome! You don't get it do you?
Shouldn't you be stealing notes from the ASA LEC meetings? Crying little spoiled brat that you are? You are so pathetic. Sitting behind your computer keyboard spewing your anti-ALPA propoganda isn't helping your cause! You should try being a team player for once!


No, you fell for believing you'd be a millionaire flying 777's around the globe! You fell for trying to get a DOH on the Delta seniority list (as promised by your rjdc circle jerk cadres)! You are a pathetic little scared boy hiding behind a computer keyboard. No wonder nobody likes you or your girlfriend!

Yes, Joe Merchant, I want to know why you skipped the LEC meeting on Friday. I checked your schedule and you were not working. Why do you continue to thumb your nose at those of us who elected you. You have no right to spout your anti-alpa drivel until you do the job you checked the box that you were "willing to serve" for!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Copy of letter recently sent to ALPA by a former member.

24 July 2006

Mr. Duane Woerth
President, Air Line Pilots Association
Washington, D.C. 20036

Dear Mr. Woerth,

For more than 10 years, I have been writing in opposition to the Age 60 rule and its negative impact on members of our profession. I am 56 years old now and I am confident that the Rule will soon fail both for financial reasons and as an act of absolute age discrimination. When I think of the millions of workers who suffered for decades under this kind of discrimination I am horrified at ALPA’s ongoing attempts to perpetuate it. From a distance, the union’s action might appear as simple buffoonery; but close up, it is social evil. In fact, it is fair to ask: Whose side are you really on?

I find ALPA’s position on the Age 60 rule so repugnant that I have resigned from the Association. Yet, every day that goes by, wherein, competent pilots are forced to leave their jobs because of ALPA’s neglect brings further disgust. That a union would authorize the firing of its members solely on the basis of age is a prime example of why the labor movement in this country has collapsed—blindness to principle. Even the Age 60 “survey,” which you peddle as support for ALPA’s position, was shameful. It misled pilots into believing that retirement at age 65 would be mandatory rather than OPTIONAL, and that the FAA would require more stringent medical exams. These fabrications rest squarely on your shoulders. Your double standard is still mystifying: You authorize flying to 65 in Canada, but you continue to block it for American pilots!

If ALPA does not publicly reverse its position on Age 60 and immediately protect the interests of U.S. citizens, I will continue to illuminate and support alternatives to ALPA membership. I will not be alone. The pilots whom you are currently disenfranchising will be doing the exact same thing in word and in deed, and their numbers are rapidly rising. You, Mr. Woerth, and your executive board are principal contributors to public antipathy and union failure. To carry on as you have is to be a unionist in name only.

Twenty-three years ago, my friends and I started our two-year strike at Continental Airlines. We fought against the very same incompetence and corruption that is now reflected in ALPA’s behavior. It is grossly unjust. If you cannot get on the right side of this issue, please step aside at once. Let someone who stands on principle protect the jobs of our most experienced aviators and the reputation of our profession.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, Joe Merchant, I want to know why you skipped the LEC meeting on Friday. I checked your schedule and you were not working. Why do you continue to thumb your nose at those of us who elected you. You have no right to spout your anti-alpa drivel until you do the job you checked the box that you were "willing to serve" for!

If he's not doing his job, then you guys need to recall him. It's not a very difficult process. I still can't believe you guys have put up with him for this long.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I personally hope you guys get an industry leading contract. I really do. You see, the more expensive you guys become, the more flying will be shifted back to mainline! Of course it could all be shifted to Mesa!
737

Then you are out of sync with ALPA National. ALPA provided economic analysis to your MEC on the anticipated value of cuts at DCI (ASA included) which were used as negotiating capital to offset management's concessionary demands.

Further, your MEC negotiated pay rates on RJ's which undercut ASA's current rates, undermining our bargaining position. The negotiation of payrates on "phantom RJ's" simply served to help management cap pay rates at the DCI carriers.

ALPA's preference is for this flying to go to R.A.H. (or anywhere outside of ALPA). ALPA does not want more RJ pilots screaming (or timidly hinting in our case) for equal treatment.

If Skywest and ASA were both ALPA, the pilots would outnumber a couple of the Group A carriers and that is seen as armageddon at National.

But hey, glad to hear your heart is in the right place. Just don't tell your friends that in Vegas or else they will laugh you out of the hosiptality suite.

It is a conspiracy.

 

[737 Pylt]

Then you are out of sync with ALPA National. ALPA provided economic analysis to your MEC on the anticipated value of cuts at DCI (ASA included) which were used as negotiating capital to offset management's concessionary demands.

Sigh.....And I tried so hard to be nice!

Further, your MEC negotiated pay rates on RJ's which undercut ASA's current rates, undermining our bargaining position. The negotiation of payrates on "phantom RJ's" simply served to help management cap pay rates at the DCI carriers.

There you go again, it's all the MEC's fault. I guess MAG flying 200's for lesser pay has nothing to do with your plight??

ALPA's preference is for this flying to go to R.A.H. (or anywhere outside of ALPA). ALPA does not want more RJ pilots screaming (or timidly hinting in our case) for equal treatment.

Reeally? Show me in writing where that is, or is this just more poopy talk from you ....After all your conspiracy about the DL MEC stripping you of your travel benefits was so easily spoofed!

If Skywest and ASA were both ALPA, the pilots would outnumber a couple of the Group A carriers and that is seen as armageddon at National.

Sounds like your beef is with Skywest pilots then. Try shifting all your blame their way, I'm sure they'll embrace you with open arms!

But hey, glad to hear your heart is in the right place. Just don't tell your friends that in Vegas or else they will laugh you out of the hosiptality suite.

It is a conspiracy.

Actually, its NYC! But when have facts stopped you from posting something that wasn't really truth!?
737

 

[John Pennekamp]

But hey, glad to hear your heart is in the right place. Just don't tell your friends that in Vegas or else they will laugh you out of the hosiptality suite.

It is a conspiracy.

Hey, Fins, you won't have to worry about his friends in the hospitality suite. The last time I was at a BOD, the Delta suite was the only one with nobody in it. If you went in, you saw 5 guys sitting around a table, drinking Chardonnay, and reminiscing about the F-15. Very dorky.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You say that it is a "fair offer", yet you have been implying that we are asking for too much when we say that we won't take a cut on the 70s. Which is it? Fact is, if we were offered exactly what the Skywest pilots have, in the form of a contract, we would probaby take it. But the company is NOT offering that, they are sticking to their paycuts, or tying status quo to us taking PBS, which I have seen you say before that you are not interested in.

The company isn't sticking to paycuts. You can't cherry pick only the good parts of various contracts.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If it is having an effect on ALPA it is that their lawyers are having to deal with it instead of doing things that could be helping the members. Your lawsuit is causing them to take their eye off the ball, and we are the ball. You bitch that ALPA doesn't do anything for us, maybe they could if they didn't have to run to court to deal with a lawsuit that never should have been filed.

What is ALPA doing to prevent the bidding war amongst various members of the portfolios? The answer is nothing. In fact, they are making things worse by creating even MORE alter-ego carriers to bid for flying. The latest creation is Compass at NWA. "Brand Scope" worked well for Mesaba and Pinnacle didn't it?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Like I told Fins, with the exception of the 146s, that we got rid of, and never had any intention of EVER getting again, we are flying bigger planes then we did in '98. And more aircraft. And when was the last time that you saw EV code being flown by someone that wasn't an ASA pilot? That is what our scope clause says, so I would say it is doing pretty good. Does it need to say something else? Yes, but you were on the negotiating committee last time, why didn't you get it to say what it needed to say then?

Because ALPA says we don't own any of the flying we do. Therefor, we cannot have any effective scope. As far as our scope being "pretty good" because nobody else flies EV code, does that mean we have better scope than DAL? After all nobody else flies the EV code, while everyone and their brother flies the DAL code. Using your logic, we have better scope than the DAL pilots.

If your job can be bid out to a lower bidder, you don't have effective scope. We don't have effective scope.

 

[JoeMerchant]

He wasn't saying there is a difference because of seating capacity. he was saying that there is a difference because those that attended ARE NOT FEE FOR DEPARTURE airlines. We are. There is a different business strategy for an airline that flies its own code versus one that contracts for that code. There must also be a different strategy for us in that situation.

That isn't what he said. He said it was because of pensions, international rest, and trans-cons. All issues that don't really apply to Frontier or Air Tran. If our union believes we have different goals, then maybe we do. If we have different goals, then we probably can't co-exist together in the same union.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Jow, I was an FO when the PID was filed, and I personally flew with at least 10 ATR captains that were convinced that they WOULD get DOH when DAL merged our lists. One's exact statement was "I don't care, I'll be in the left seat of a 76 this time next year." You can say whatever you want, but there were a lot of senior Captains here that thought they would get DOH. But had we approached the DAL MEC BEFORE the PID was filed and told them that we would gladly accept a staple the PID might well have passed.

Doesn't matter what those 10 captains said. They don't control ALPA merger and frag. policy. I'm sure there are many USAir pilots who are shouting DOH today, but I bet you they don't get DOH.

Likewise, a pure staple isn't acceptable either. A pure staple would have put me and you out of work for the past 5 years and that isn't acceptable either.

ALPA merger and frag. language would have sufficed. Nobody gets a windfall at the expense of another. An ASA or CMR pilot bumping a Delta pilot out of a "mainline" seat, or a mainline pilot bumping an ASA or CMR pilot out of their seat, would have constituted a windfall.

 

[JoeMerchant]

[/b]

Your MEC may do whatever they want. I seriously doubt they would be in favor of that, however. Besides, I'm hoping Johnny B. comes out. I'd love a chance to meet that guy face to face.

I would enjoy the opportunity also, but I'm not invited. I would like to meet you also and discuss these issues further.

 

[Bizjet]

[/b]
Besides, I'm hoping Johnny B. comes out. I'd love a chance to meet that guy face to face.

You can forget that happening. He never looks anyone in the eyes when he talks to them. He will look at your shoes or at the heavens but will not make eye contact. Must be either a poor self image or he is not making truthful statements. If you get him in a conversation and he can't control that conversation he will turn red and produce spittle as he lashes out at any statements that could be considered pro Alpa. He is likely to be trashed and could pass out on you during any of his rehearsed rants as well. Usually his handler is with him to keep him from making to big an A$$ out of himself and too get volunteers to carry him back to his room if he passes out (past history at the Air and Space Museum). But he would never be brought to an ALPA BOD because he can't be bothered with attending the LEC meetings and doing his job as LEC Sec/Treas. Plus he couldn't hide behind his Key Board at the BOD. He is basically a worm in person.