Who's using PBS?

[calfo]

Here at Continental, it seems like we're in the process of getting PBS shoved down our throats. I've never used it, and I'm hearing all sorts of conflicting information about it. Will it build lines with trips right up to either end of a week of vacation? Will it suck the pool dry of any open time?

Our MEC is all for it - which makes me very suspicious. We expect a TA sometime this month, and it's going to be a close vote, from what I've seen. The company wants cuts - which will most likely be productivity increases, not pay scale shrinkage. But the company is really pushing PBS, for some reason.

Lemme hear it, please.

 

[TWA Dude]

The company is pushing for PBS because it's more effecient. There's that one-time period where the need for new pilots will be negated but after that all is normal. IMHO PBS is a huge quality-of-life improvement over line bidding. Why choose from the crappy schedules the company put out versus having the ability to build your own? Seniority still rules but even the real junior guys can usually a specific day off if that's all that's desired. PBS will not allow for conflicts because it'll already know about your vacation, training, and carry-through flying. PBS will have no effect on open time; that's a company and contractual issue.

Despite the efficiency issue I'd still vote in favor of PBS. Most guys who are against it simply don't understand how it works. It's also important to mention that ALPA and the company need to work together well with the PBS vendor to ensure that the contract is complied with. PBS worked great at TWA but it's not quite as rosy here at AWA, but it'll improve.

 

[RJones]

We don't use it here at SWA, however, everything I heard has been that it will eliminate overlap problems, build trips right up to your vacation and beginning right after, and build your trips to your preferences ... like I want to stay west of the Mississippi.

I personally do not know enough about it and like you welcome opinions. Your MEC should do a trial run of it along side your current system so you could see what you would have gotten with PBS.

RJ

 

[canyonblue]

Most guys who are against it simply don't understand how it works.

I agree! Those letters start more arguments at SWA, even more than A L P A. I am 100% behind a good PBS system because I have done it in the past and it works. Most of the guys that argue with me on it have 1) Never done it and 2) Worry about their vacation month being screwed. Last time I checked no one at SWA was getting 7 weeks a year so they are willing to throw away QOL for the majority of the year to settle for the few months of vacation that would be affected. PBS will happen at SWA, if as only a way to cut costs without going into our payscales. We have to start the research now or risk either a loss of pay in the future or a inferior PBS system.

 

[RJones]

canyonblue, I agree with your assessment of fellow SWA pilot's not understanding the how PBS works. I myself am not completely educated on the system and would like to know more about how it works and what it can do for me.

The senior folks are in fear of what they may lose and it seems they don't even want to entertain the idea of testing the system out. I'm all for a "look see" of the system and then a vote from the rank and file.

RJ

 

[cactuspilot]

PBS works great if you take the time to learn how to use it. After you burn yourself a couple times you catch on.

If you want time off on one or both ends of vacation all you have to do is put alot of weight on having those days off. Then put less in other areas. You may end up with a crappy trip when you eventually go back to work though.

I liked it. After you get the hang of it you will spend less time bidding.

I think the real key to flexibility is what you can do with your line after you get it. Then it doesn't really matter how you got it anyway.

 

[PHXFLYR]

The company is pushing for PBS because it's more effecient. There's that one-time period where the need for new pilots will be negated but after that all is normal. IMHO PBS is a huge quality-of-life improvement over line bidding. Why choose from the crappy schedules the company put out versus having the ability to build your own? Seniority still rules but even the real junior guys can usually a specific day off if that's all that's desired. PBS will not allow for conflicts because it'll already know about your vacation, training, and carry-through flying. PBS will have no effect on open time; that's a company and contractual issue.

Despite the efficiency issue I'd still vote in favor of PBS. Most guys who are against it simply don't understand how it works. It's also important to mention that ALPA and the company need to work together well with the PBS vendor to ensure that the contract is complied with. PBS worked great at TWA but it's not quite as rosy here at AWA, but it'll improve.

Thank your ol'TWA buddy "Tuna Joe" for that. He made damm sure that what
made it work so well at TWA wouldn't get to see the light of day at AWA!!
Don't believe me ask the negotiating comittee some time.

PHXFLYR

 

[Big Beer Belly]

The company is pushing for PBS because it's more effecient. There's that one-time period where the need for new pilots will be negated but after that all is normal. IMHO PBS is a huge quality-of-life improvement over line bidding. Why choose from the crappy schedules the company put out versus having the ability to build your own? Seniority still rules but even the real junior guys can usually a specific day off if that's all that's desired. PBS will not allow for conflicts because it'll already know about your vacation, training, and carry-through flying. PBS will have no effect on open time; that's a company and contractual issue.

Despite the efficiency issue I'd still vote in favor of PBS. Most guys who are against it simply don't understand how it works. It's also important to mention that ALPA and the company need to work together well with the PBS vendor to ensure that the contract is complied with. PBS worked great at TWA but it's not quite as rosy here at AWA, but it'll improve.

TWA Dude,

I have never used PBS and we are fighting it in negotiations at UPS (as far as I'm aware). I'm totally confused by your post. You say the company is pushing for it because it is more efficient. How is that good for the pilots (less pilots doing more flying)? Then you say PBS will NOT allow for conflicts (vacation, training, carry-in) ... again, how is this good for the pilots? One week of vacation will easily wipe out 4 weeks of work at UPS, same with recurrent training or a carry-in conflict. If you bid a long Pac Rim trip and a conflict touches that trip by a single minute, the entire trip drops (full month's work) with full pay protection, so long as the trip does not transit domicile. If I lose the ability to"conflict", how is this possibly good for the pilot? With vacation (3-4 weeks) and recurrent conflicts (not to mention carry-in), most guys can wipe out significant amounts of flying at UPS and I believe FedEx has the conflict deal even better with their ability to slide a vacation into conflict. PBS would be a real bummer for us from what little I understand.

As far as open time. Simple logic would dictate that if PBS is more efficient, then more flying will be flown by less pilots, thus less open time would be available ... unless, of course, the company furloughs the newly created surplus pilots created by the more efficient PBS.

Since reserve is generally a good deal at UPS (average 3-4 days per month of utilization), how would PBS affect the reserve schedules?

Thanks,

BBB

 

[English]

Aloha uses a elementary version of PBS, and I love it. I can block my work days together (say, six on, one off, six on) and then have a block of ten days off together if I want. Or, I can do the traditional four on, three off. The flexibility is GREAT. I've gotten almost everything I've asked for in terms of particular days off, even as a new hire. I've used traditional bid lines as well as PBS, and definitely prefer PBS.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I have noticed that for pilots to realize the full potential of PBS,your company must have a significant number of 2 and 3 day trips for you to bid. Otherwise it will be very difficult to string blocks of time together like English does to maximize your number of days off at home. As for vacations, I have been able to add to my time off over a vacation block by using an option called a string bid. This allows me to put days off in front of and behind my vacation block,thus increasing its length. I've done fairly well with PBS, although if you're not careful you can wind up with one nasty schedule for the month.


PHXFLYR