Who's next?

[redflyer65]

Who's next?


Skybus as of tonight....

See ya.

 

[9rj9]

hahQ!!

Skybus is next to go under. VP of OPS quit today...going back to Delta for another 500K VP job

now if could just pick stocks as well...

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Planedriver, Skybus isn't a public company so it's not easy to find that answer.

Andy,

I guess we now know the 'answer' tonight!!

Less than a year of ops, so did take them long to go through that $175mil. If its almost gone, kinda 'record pace.'

For what its worth.

DA

 

[T-Bags]

now if could just pick stocks as well...

Well, too bad Skybust wasn't public...I know a certain pilot who made an obscene amount of cash sell naked calls on Indy Air...This skybust debacle could have made all of us rich!!

 

[T-Bags]

Andy,

I guess we now know the 'answer' tonight!!

Less than a year of ops, so did take them long to go through that $175mil. If its almost gone, kinda 'record pace.'

For what its worth.

DA

Nah, I think Indy went thru more cash, faster.

 

[Andy]

Andy,

I guess we now know the 'answer' tonight!!

Less than a year of ops, so did take them long to go through that $175mil. If its almost gone, kinda 'record pace.'

For what its worth.

DA

PlaneDrvr, I suspect that the investors pulled the plug early; I'd have a hard time believing that they could burn through that kind of money. Indy Air was only able to burn through ~90 mil/qtr and they had a bunch of RJs.

 

[PCL_128]

Andy, never underestimate the incompetence of management!

 

[jonjuan]

Andy, never underestimate the incompetence of management!

No kidding-speaking of which, when will Frontier be Toast?

 

[zkmayo]

When will we all be toast?

I tell ya, people who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

Good luck all.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Get a stable job while you still can....

 

[Beetle007]

For it's size, Skybus was very well capitalized - somewhere around $175M. Unless Skybus' investors (IIRC, there were several Columbus businesses that provided the startup money) pull their money, I don't see them going away any time soon.

Its called "cashing out". When gamblers are losing money at a table they take their money and walk. The same goes with airline investors.

I see lots of propoganda about the "corporate rat" and how it is us vs. management. But, they are the hand the feeds us. Be careful how hard you bite.

 

[Beetle007]

Planedriver, Skybus isn't a public company so it's not easy to find that answer.

Just like public companies Skybus has to report each quarter. At the end of the last quarter they had 79,546,000 cash.

 

[castle bravo]

007,
How much did NK have at the end of the last qtr?

 

[Beetle007]

Skybus had 79,546,000 Cash and 0 short term investments at the end of last quarter

Spirit had 60,569,000 Cash and 37,925,000 short term investments at the end of last quarter.

Frontier had 181,000,000 cash and 0 short term investments

This week made me realize you don't have to run out of money to go out of business. The board of directors just has to decide they will lose money by continuing operations. They simply "cash out"

You can find this info on schedules B-1 and P-12 on the BTS.gov website. Click on the word "Schedule B-1" or "Schedule P-12". I wouldn't recommend using the download feature unless you want to spend time working in an excel spreadsheet.

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables...ial Data)&DB_Short_Name=Air Carrier Financial

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Get a stable job while you still can....

There are stable jobs? You mean with horses?

 

[Andy]

Skybus had 79,546,000 Cash and 0 short term investments at the end of last quarter

Spirit had 60,569,000 Cash and 37,925,000 short term investments at the end of last quarter.

Frontier had 181,000,000 cash and 0 short term investments

This week made me realize you don't have to run out of money to go out of business. The board of directors just has to decide they will lose money by continuing operations. They simply "cash out"

You can find this info on schedules B-1 and P-12 on the BTS.gov website. Click on the word "Schedule B-1" or "Schedule P-12". I wouldn't recommend using the download feature unless you want to spend time working in an excel spreadsheet.

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables...ial Data)&DB_Short_Name=Air Carrier Financial

Beetle, thank you very much for the link; I know the info was out there, buried in DOT stats but hadn't been able to locate it yet. I go to a company's SEC filings, but you don't get that info from private companies.
I read that Virgin America has filed for an exemption to filing their Q4 cash numbers with DOT - that should be interesting. (I picked up a rumor from a finance guy that VA may not last much longer).

Just for everyone's clarification - the latest numbers listed in those charts only goes through the end of September 2007; the end of year numbers aren't yet available.

And Beetle, thanks for confirming that the investors pulled the plug on Skybus. I didn't see how they could've burned through all of that money. I'm willing to bet that at least one of the major investors was facing their own cash crunch and pulled their money. Do you know where to get a list of investors? I know that it's mostly Columbus businesses.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

that doesn't make any sense. Every airline pays the same price for fuel. Just because the oil is pumped in N America doesn't mean they are going to sell it at a discount to US Airlines. Fuel is a fixed cost and the only way around high fuel costs is to generate extra revenue or find creative ways to cut costs. Hence the talk of mergers.

Yup!
Move all the airlines to Nevada, hire all new F/As from the "ranches", convert the rear lav into a "service closet", "house/airline" takes 40%. Good for everyone pax stress level goes down, F/As make bank and the pilots would get to tap hotties once a day per the FOM, 0.00 cost while on the A/C.
Thinkin outside the box!
PBR

 

[Beetle007]

And Beetle, thanks for confirming that the investors pulled the plug on Skybus. I didn't see how they could've burned through all of that money.

I don't know the details of the Skybus situation.

The board of directors at most companies is comprised almost entirely of private investors or their representatives. The board of directors decides when to pull the plug. Common sense and DOT regulations regarding financial stability usually cause them to pull the plug before they run out of money.

Investors sometimes have financial covenants as part of their investment. If the airline can't meet the financial covenenant, the investor gets the rest of their money back.

 

[jmreii]

UAL does have a lot of cash. But they need to because they are bigger than DAL, CAL and NWA, etc. I'm not sure what "metric" is the best for available cash as it relates to size and debt (and other factors) but several analysts have commented recently that DAL, NWA and SWA are best positioned to ride out a tough year, in large part because of their cash. However these same analysts put UAL below those 3, and I'm sure everyone is well aware of UAL's cash position.

So if DAL is better off than UAL, or if UAL is better off than DAL, why, specifically?

they may need more than 1 year to weather the storm, more like two or three years. airlines are usually the last industry to return from any economic slowdown, downturn, or whatever the flavor of the day is. fuel along will consume that cash reserve like termites eating wood.

 

[Andy]

UAL does have a lot of cash. But they need to because they are bigger than DAL, CAL and NWA, etc. I'm not sure what "metric" is the best for available cash as it relates to size and debt (and other factors) but several analysts have commented recently that DAL, NWA and SWA are best positioned to ride out a tough year, in large part because of their cash. However these same analysts put UAL below those 3, and I'm sure everyone is well aware of UAL's cash position.

So if DAL is better off than UAL, or if UAL is better off than DAL, why, specifically?

Cash/equivalents on hand as a percentage of annual revenues is a starting metric.
UAUA - $3.55B/$20.10B = 17.66%
DAL - $2.79B/$19.15B = 14.57%
NWA - $3.03B/$12.53B = 24.18%
LUV -$2.78B/$9.86B = 28.19%

 

[T-Bags]

Cash/equivalents on hand as a percentage of annual revenues is a starting metric.
UAUA - $3.55B/$20.10B = 17.66%
DAL - $2.79B/$19.15B = 14.57%
NWA - $3.03B/$12.53B = 24.18%
LUV -$2.78B/$9.86B = 28.19%

Well, UAUA paying out that CASH dividend was a GREAT call....I'd certainly feel better with another half a bill in the coffers

 

[race#53]

T,
i think you have to add 3 billion to WN's cash in the form of fuel hedges.

 

[flyipilot]

Just like public companies Skybus has to report each quarter. At the end of the last quarter they had 79,546,000 cash.

Skybus never had ANY money. the banks that funded them had that money. They pulled the plug. They saw it was a bad investment. Skybus management and the board of directors had ZERO say in the entire shut down. The banks control it 100%. It it their money Skybus was playing airline with and they had enough. Simple.

 

[Andy]

Well, UAUA paying out that CASH dividend was a GREAT call....I'd certainly feel better with another half a bill in the coffers

For the record, it was $250 mil. And I'm very pissed that they chose to do it. That money would have been much better spent paying down debt, although they paid down several billion in 2007.