Who's making money these days?

[igneousy2]

Major airline pilots make much less these days. That's stating the obvious. Doctors, at least GP's, the average lawyer, engineers, and so on also make less in general. The middle class lifestyle afforded by our parents is very much out of reach for our generation, even with a college degree. So the question is, who is making the same or more than the old days? I know there are pockets of prosperity here and there, but in general it seems everyone has it worse, which is not a good thing, especially for pilots. CEO's don't count, we all know how out of whack that situation is. Discuss.

The occupiers are occupying the wrong street.

I fear we are going to have to go over the cliff before mainstream gets the message that the government CANNOT save you.

The government has caused all of these problems...it is well established by real economist....note...real economist do not appear on FOX/CNN or write columns for the New York Times.

Why is the middle class failing and the rich geting richer....that's very simple...the rich have majority of their wealth in performing Assets...the middle class and below have all/most of their assets in cash, depreciating Assets, or government subsidized Assets. If the value of cash is depreciating over time then someone with 100% or nearly 100% of their wealth in cash is going to get poorer. If cash/near cash is only 10% of your wealth and the value of performing assets (Subway sanchwich shops, factories, retail stores, etc.) keeps up with inflation (as assets generally do) then you will get richer relative to the middle class.

Additionally, the middle class americans have most of their assets in depreciating things (cars-probably on credit to...35,000 for an asset worth 30,000 that goes down by double digit percentages a year) and homes that were purchased at too high prices because of government subsidies...so for a middle class american the value of their cars are falling, the value of their homes are being artificially propped up by the federal government that is less and less able to afford to keep the music going, and the rest (the cash) is being diminished by the federal government because they keep printing more and more money.

Why? There is no mystery and it has nothing to do with Wall Street.

 

[Rick James]

Well said-
Good question-
Get involved, make your voice heard, call congress, call your senators, bring rationality to Occupy-
I'm sure occupy is as disorganized as it seems- means a lot to a lot of different people-
For me- mortgage backed securities/derivatives/ record bonuses/ airline exec absurdity/
It's been a war on the middle class for 30 years and we should recognize it- and get in the fight-
Our economic structure is devolving into what it's always been in the unregulated history of humanity- oligarchy, then monarchy/feudalism- how far do we let it go and just make fun of the more ridiculous occupiers-
I really don't care if the lazy starve- but when hard working solid professionals go bankrupt bc the deck is stacked against them in an unfair playing field??
That's a problem worth protesting-

While I can anticipate your biased posts, I mostly agree with what you say here. Unfortunately, there is no solution to the problem we are facing short of a ctrl-alt-delete of our society. Calling Senators, writing letters, "getting involved", all sound nice but will accomplish nothing as change will only come by getting rid of the people that make the rules. The people that make the rules are loyal to power and money, and unfortunately we don't have either. The only people they are afraid of are those that have nothing to lose, i.e. the people receiving handouts. Once again, we aren't those people. We are all in a losing battle and my pessimistic mind can't fathom a solution.

 

[The Prussian]

We all need to relax, it will all be OK. Just forget about that large home...it'll just cost more in taxes. They have it right in Europe...get a flat. It's not worth it to chase "the dream". :cartman:

 

[dragontamer]

Sure there are folks doing well. Folks that are government connected. 7 of the top 10 highest earning counties not surprisingly are bordering Washington DC. Good wages, pensions, outstanding benefits. All on your dime! If you want to do well, get in tight with the Government.

 

[check six]

A few comments on the situation in the US:

1. MBA's in corporate officer positions will always be paid well and better than pilots. Their job is to minimize costs (like labor) and maximize revenue. To them, a pilot is just a labor cost as part of their overall game. So they just keep driving down labor costs. ALPA is tough but they beat ALPA by subcontracting all their domestic routes to the regionals. AA beat ALPA by filing for bankruptcy protection.

2. Engineers can make a decent living all the way to whatever they want (Steve Jobs- although he was not a degreed engineer but did well anyway). BTW, I am an engineer and have made good money. I have flown airplanes over the years because it is fun. Flew light aircraft up to corporate jets.

3. Doctors can make $100K to $500K per year but the high end guys work all the time. Not worth it in my mind.

4. Investors like Warren Buffet and George Soros make huge money because of their investing acumen. George Soros was a jewish immigrant from eastern europe and said that capitalism has its flaws. According to Soros, one flaw is that those like him can make large sums of money because of their skill but that is not necessarily good for the society as a whole.

Making money in the stock market is a good way to go. Once you study markets long enough it is not hard to figure out where to put your money. Plus with online trading, you can get in and out quick.

At the end of the day, whatever you do you have to be good at it and like what you are doing. MBA's put up with politics all day long. Engineers like Jobs have to love what they are doing to make big money. Doctors have to love what they are doing to be on call all the time. Pilot job is extremely satisfying and fun but you have to put up with company fortunes and keeping your medical.

Check Six

 

[IBNAV8R]

Seems we've lost track of what's really important.

Health
Family
Friends

As I see it, the ones who measure happiness in dollars (compared to others) are never happy.

 

[Flyby1206]

Politicians, Lobbyists, Lawyers, Hedge Fund Managers

 

[Smarta$$]

Sure there are folks doing well. Folks that are government connected. 7 of the top 10 highest earning counties not surprisingly are bordering Washington DC. Good wages, pensions, outstanding benefits. All on your dime! If you want to do well, get in tight with the Government.

Those are also lobbyists and corporate lawyers chief.

 

[Smarta$$]

The occupiers are occupying the wrong street.

I fear we are going to have to go over the cliff before mainstream gets the message that the government CANNOT save you.

The government has caused all of these problems...it is well established by real economist....note...real economist do not appear on FOX/CNN or write columns for the New York Times.

Why is the middle class failing and the rich geting richer....that's very simple...the rich have majority of their wealth in performing Assets...the middle class and below have all/most of their assets in cash, depreciating Assets, or government subsidized Assets. If the value of cash is depreciating over time then someone with 100% or nearly 100% of their wealth in cash is going to get poorer. If cash/near cash is only 10% of your wealth and the value of performing assets (Subway sanchwich shops, factories, retail stores, etc.) keeps up with inflation (as assets generally do) then you will get richer relative to the middle class.

Additionally, the middle class americans have most of their assets in depreciating things (cars-probably on credit to...35,000 for an asset worth 30,000 that goes down by double digit percentages a year) and homes that were purchased at too high prices because of government subsidies...so for a middle class american the value of their cars are falling, the value of their homes are being artificially propped up by the federal government that is less and less able to afford to keep the music going, and the rest (the cash) is being diminished by the federal government because they keep printing more and more money.

Why? There is no mystery and it has nothing to do with Wall Street.

Your F-ing delusional or blindly partisan if you think Wall Street had nothing to do with this country's problems. W stated from the beginning that Wall Street got drunk, and that it was largely to blame for the meltdown(and the run up).

 

[pilotyip]

Major airline pilots make much less these days. That's stating the obvious. Doctors, at least GP's, the average lawyer, engineers, and so on also make less in general. The middle class lifestyle afforded by our parents is very much out of reach for our generation, even with a college degree. So the question is, who is making the same or more than the old days? I know there are pockets of prosperity here and there, but in general it seems everyone has it worse, which is not a good thing, especially for pilots. CEO's don't count, we all know how out of whack that situation is. Discuss.

What is middle class lifestyle? When your were commenting about the demise of the middle class, I ask what defines middle class, is it houses, cars, good schools. Do we define middle class by income level. What is middle class income? is it 46K, 50 percentile, is it 75K, 70 percentile, is in 90K, 80 percentile, is it 110K 90 percentile, what is middle income? I never get an answer; so please define it so so we can all know what middle class is. Most pilots make a good living compared to the rest of the individuals in this country

BTW I thought I was middle class growing up in 1950 in a 800 sq ft house, like everyone on our block, 5 kids in a two bedroom house, one car, party line phone, a stay home mom, and we only ate out when grandma came to visit.

A few comments on the situation in the US:

1. MBA's
2. Engineers
3. Doctors
4. Investors

Making money in the stock market is a good way to go. Once you study markets long enough it is not hard to figure out where to put your money. Plus with online trading, you can get in and out quick.

At the end of the day, whatever you do you have to be good at it and like what you are doing. MBA's put up with politics all day long. Engineers like Jobs have to love what they are doing to make big money. Doctors have to love what they are doing to be on call all the time. Pilot job is extremely satisfying and fun but you have to put up with company fortunes and keeping your medical.

Check Six

Well said, nice touch of reality in a "it is not fair world"

 

[waveflyer]

Ok yip- everything relative in your world?
the facts/data remain- those who acquire their money are taxed at 15% and only if they sell- those who earn an income are taxed above 34%+ state-
The rich have used their ability to lobby to gain that advantage and use it across the board to gain leverage over income earners-
The gap is growing between the rich and everyone else- both groups are getting smaller -
How long do we let it continue?

 

[waveflyer]

Sure there are folks doing well. Folks that are government connected. 7 of the top 10 highest earning counties not surprisingly are bordering Washington DC. Good wages, pensions, outstanding benefits. All on your dime! If you want to do well, get in tight with the Government.

Get real. That's such a cop-out.

There is a propaganda machine out there that wants you to be pessimistic about the govt -
Because in a government, of the people, for the people, by the people- Government IS our power-

Unless we can be convinced not to use it.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

You are probably a communist homosexual riddled with class envy. To answer your question....

Jobs which are not subject to overseas competition and require a high degree of skill.

Short of perhaps a few highly classified military based jobs, I don't think any job meets that description anymore.

 

[pilotyip]

Ok yip- everything relative in your world?
the facts/data remain- those who acquire their money are taxed at 15% and only if they sell- those who earn an income are taxed above 34%+ state-
The rich have used their ability to lobby to gain that advantage and use it across the board to gain leverage over income earners-
The gap is growing between the rich and everyone else- both groups are getting smaller -
How long do we let it continue?

Back to square one, what do we do about these "Evil Rich" people? Kill'em, tax them into moving to another country, or just say the gov't needs your money therefore we will take it all. BTW Who are these rich people, is POTUS BO a rich person? A lot of people consider you and I rich people even though I have never made over 100K/yr in my life.

 

[JetFumes]

Back to square one, what do we do about these "Evil Rich" people? Kill'em, tax them into moving to another country, or just say the gov't needs your money therefore we will take it all. BTW Who are these rich people, is POTUS BO a rich person? A lot of people consider you and I rich people even though I have never made over 100K/yr in my life.

You seem to want to stay with the relativistic theme. OK, I'll define middle class for you. I would say that middle class is defined as the ability to buy a moderate house, a car or two, depending on the needs of your family, send your kids to a decent school, have a least one vacation a year, retire with confidence, and do it all on ONE INCOME, not two. I think everyone would agree that at least one person at home is good for the kids, which gets back to that family health and friends theme. I'm not saying that one person should always stay home per se, just that the ability to do that is there. Discuss.

 

[pilotyip]

You seem to want to stay with the relativistic theme. OK, I'll define middle class for you. I would say that middle class is defined as the ability to buy a moderate house, Discuss.

Define moderate home, 800 sq ft, 1400 sq ft, 2400 sq ft 4000 sq ft, what is a middle class decent home? You sound upper middle class to me.

 

[JetFumes]

Define moderate home, 800 sq ft, 1400 sq ft, 2400 sq ft 4000 sq ft, what is a middle class decent home? You sound upper middle class to me.

Really....your just sending out flamebait, right? Did you read the whole post? The size of the moderate house would depend upon the family size, wouldn't it? I think most people can determine whats small, average or moderate, and large. But hey, maybe all us pilots should just be happy we don't all live in grass huts, or wallow around strung out and on the street... After all, there's not much difference between the average pilot and some strung out addict, right?

 

[NuGuy]

Bankrupting those MBAs and most of Wall Street is well within the power of every American.

Move your money to Credit Unions, and take all of the money and close out your 401k. Don't invest money in any mutual fund, instead save it, start a business or invest locally. Don't buy insurance from any company that isn't a "mutual" company.

If most of middle America did this, Wall Street, as we know it, would collapse and the DOW would be at 2-4,000. All of those funds would fold, and those same MBAs would be out serving lattes Starbucks instead of making megabucks. Those few managers that remained would actually have to work for their money, instead of having it direct deposited every 15th and 30th from Joe and Jane Smith.

The occupy crowd is pissing and moaning about the casino taking their money. It's all within our power to change.

Nu

 

[pilotyip]

Really....your just sending out flamebait, right? Did you read the whole post? The size of the moderate house would depend upon the family size, wouldn't it? I think most people can determine whats small, average or moderate, and large. But hey, maybe all us pilots should just be happy we don't all live in grass huts, or wallow around strung out and on the street... After all, there's not much difference between the average pilot and some strung out addict, right?

No flamebait, just an unanswered question. Still no answer on house size, and yes most pilots who have been in this trade for 10 years live in decent houses. A Fed Ex Capt probably thinks he is middle class in his 5,000 sq ft house on his 20 acre horse farm. The Communter Captain probably thinks he is middle class in a 1400 sq ft house in a 40 year old sub. BTW After all, there's not much difference between the average pilot and some strung out addict, right? other than they are both very happy?

 

[check six]

Gap between rich and poor

Waveflyer,

You claim the gap between rich and poor is growing and that the rich are conspiring against the poor to keep it that way.

Sure games are played all the time by people who own and run businesses to set it up so they always win. I am sure OPEC does that. When the price of gas at the pump is $5 a gallon, the US starts building electric cars etc. (they increase supply and bring the price down). When the price of gas at the pump is $2 a gallon, opec cuts supply to bring the price up so their profit comes up.

But there is still a ton of opportunity in this country. I have been an engineer for awhile. Made a good living at it and added to it by investing in big oil. That allowed me to fly for fun and get an ATP. So when big oil raises the price of gas at the pump, I pay a little more for gas. But the price of the stock goes way up and I make a net gain.

I have many engineer friends who came from poor backgrounds and got an engineering degree. Then went on to make a fortune. Like in the millions of dollars. No one gave it to them. They earned it.

So the United States is still the land of opportunity for poor people. It is still a country of meritocracy vs. aristocracy.

I used to fly at a 135 company. The guy who owned it was a major airline captain. So he has made a fortune in that business instead of just crying about how bad the airline has treated him.

Check Six