Who/what is Republic?

[tyuwerty]

RAH is now a public company. The fiduciary duty of the officers will prevent the transfer of assets to a company they don't own. They can be held liable by the stockholders, the SEC and even the codeshares who own stockrights. Only way flying get transfered is by outright purchase of SA to bring them under the RAH umbrella. In addition the pilot contract prevents the farming out of flying.

1. RAH will eventually purchase SA for reasons unrelated to the 170.
2. Republic will have a certificate by end of Q3.
3. 190's purchased and announced by end of year. Possible need for another certificate.
4. DOH merge in seniority lists without a pilot vote.

I agree 100% with everything except #1, I think the 170 does play into the decision.

 

[SEFlyer]

Okay, I guess I'll be the one to ask... What makes Republic a crappy airline?

Flying 70 and 90 seaters for 50 seater pay on the front end. On the backend - Brian Bedford doing everything he can to undercut every other regional to grow and expand.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Flying 70 and 90 seaters for 50 seater pay on the front end.

Just to pick a data point, I chose 5yr captain pay.

The only case in which this statement is accurate is 50-seat Comair pay vs. 70-seat CHQ pay. CHQ's rate for 70-seat jets is higher than every other company's 50-seat rate... In fact, CHQ's 70-seat rate is higher than the 70-seat rates of Mesa, at least... And only $1-2/hr below the rates for Mesa, PSA and ASA.

CHQ's 50-seat rate is higher, by the way, than Air Wisconsin, ASA, Mesa, Pinnacle, and TSA 50-seat rates... And only $1/hr less than American Eagle and ExpressJet. So you can pretty much call that a wash with or better than 7 of the biggest operators of the 50-seaters.

As for "flying 90 seaters for 50 seat pay", that's impossible. CHQ isn't flying any 90-seaters... And if they do, they'll be paid $75/hr (at yr5), which is $8/hr more than a Mesa pilot at the same level, $4/hr more than AW's Bae146 drivers and $2/hr less than JetBlue's 190 drivers.

Your argument don't be holdin' no water, man. Try another tack. You might start by recognizing that there's really no such thing as an airline called "Republic", at least not yet.

 

[SEFlyer]

Alas, IP Freely, you have caught me with my pants down. The 70 seat rates are above most airlines 50 seat rates, but they are still too low. XJT 50 seat rate at year 5 is 64. CHQ 70 seat rate at year 5 is 66.

Two dollars more per hour? I'd say if that was a 50 seater you have a great contract, but it might as well be a "good" 50 seat rate that CHQ is flying 70 seaters for. If you took your pay scales and moved the equipment down the line, it would be stellar. If you moved the 50 seater to the 70 seat rates and the 70 seater to the 90 seat rates. That'd be more on par.

But even though the rates are above most 50 seat rates, it's still a 50 seat rate.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Basically, everyone's 70-seat payscale sucks.

Here are the 5yr rates for every airline I can think of that flies 70's, ignoring the factors such as guarantee, per diem, etc., etc., etc...:
Mesa- 62
Skywest- 63
CHQ- 66
PSA- 67
MDA- 67
ASA- 68
AE- 68
Comair- 75
Horizon- 76

And in the Bae/Avro:
AWAC- 71
Mesaba- 67

I don't know who else, if anyone, flies 70's or equivalent. If you look at all those numbers you see that most (6/11, or more than half) are in the 66-68 range, a whopping $2 spread. And that's where CHQ is.

Hate the game, not the company... Their pay is more or less average, and the differences are slight with the exception of Comair and Horizon (and, I guess, Mesa). I know you have a bone to pick, and every company but yours is "lowering the bar" and all that tiresome stuff, but the accuracy of your complaint is a little suspect.

All numbers courtesy of www.airlinepilotpay.com. Great site!

 

[Peleton]

You guys just cannot see the trees through the forrest.

It is very simple, NO I repeat NO regional should feel proud or try to defend that they are flying 70-90 seat jet aircraft. Those aircraft were the start and will be the end of the great career that once was called professional pilot. The 70-90 seat aircraft are taking over for the 73's on routes, soon they will give the regionals the 100 seat aircraft so they can downsize the Airbus routes at mainline.

It is impossible to defend the pay rates of 70-90 seat jet aircraft at the regional level. You are all getting paid WAY to little for what you are replacing. You are all being used by managment to lower the profession down.

Good luck.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Yeah!!

Everyone knows that 328J's and CL-65's haven't stolen anyone's flying... No CRJ's are being used to replace 73's on routes, that's for sure!! And they are all super-duper well paid and in no way contributed to the downfall of the profession. They definitely aren't being used by management to lower the profession down.



Amazing how an extra 20 seats in what amounts to the same airplane that you claim to fly makes you totally change your tune about the nature of the flying.

Just curious, should future JetBlue pilots not feel proud to fly the E190? Or is the very existence of such aircraft what gets under your skin?

 

[Peleton]

Last time I checked a 32 seat aircraft can NEVER replace a mainline aircraft. It is used as a replacement for a turboprop aircraft, the high CASM makes it unable to replace a NB aircraft. That is why you never saw too many CVG to EVV flights on DAL on MD 80's. The 328Jet was built to serve underserved markets not take over existing ones. In addition the CRJ is not an effective aircraft to replace the NB either, as everybody has stated the 50 seat market is a dying market as they are being replaced with 70-90 seat aircraft. The CASM on a 50 seat aircraft is almost 100% higher than for a effeceint NB. The CASM on the 90 seat aircraft is lower than for a NB aircraft as the crew cost are so much lower.

A regional is nothing more than an outsourcee. It is no different than Dell outsourcing its jobs to India and the Far East. This is only the first step in the evolution of the industry, soon you will see legacy carriers become nothing more than outsourcers. They can farm out the domestic feed to low paid regionals and then can send the international flying off to its team partners in other countries. This is already starting to be done as a UAL pax from ROC going to Frankfurt will use an outsourced Mesa plane to get to IAD then connect on Lufthansa to Germany. UAL gets a cut though they never had the pax get in a UAL aircraft.

Next step will be 190's flying trunk routes replacing NB's, then feeding international carriers while the legacy carrier never has to deal with the pax. In 20 years DAL will have half as many planes as the will continue to outsource more and more jobs to the lower paid regionals. That means the regionals will now become a career not just a job to get to the majors. This evolution would have occurred 30 years ago after deregulation if the aircraft would have been available and the unions would not have been so entrenched in the legacy carriers.

This is the reason why I am out of this industry and I will never look back. Too much money to be made in other industries where you are still treated as a human being not just a number, where the money is still available for you to live a nice life yet still be home every night for your family.


Good Luck!

 

[Dave Siegel]

Long live Herman the Duck!!!!!

That's the most intelligent thing I've read here all day!

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Looking for clarification....

I heard from a friend of mine that flies for CHQ that since Republic isn't up and running yet with the certificate that the 170's are being flown on CHQ's certificate. Not a problem with that other than the fact that CHQ has a scope agreement with AA. And the 170's break that scope. So I was told that CHQ pays AA $33,000 a day for the violation of the agreement??? Accurate info???

If so, that's a ton of money every single day....

 

[I.P. Freley]

I don't believe CHQ is paying that yet... But they will have to, that's for sure. Thus the desire to double-time the 170's onto SA's certificate. The conventional thinking is that when RAH gets the Republic certificate approved, the 190's will go THERE. So:

CHQ- Smaller EMB's
SA- Bigger EMB's
REP- Biggest EMB's

Or so the theory goes. Noone really knows yet, this is still speculation.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Alright... Well I had heard from a reputable source that those payments have begun. Maybe, maybe not... I was just curious...

 

[Flying Horses]

The following article was published by Aviation Daily on Monday, October 25, 2004

American’s pilots agreed to drop their argument that Chautauqua’s Embraer 170 flights violate the pilot contract if flying transfers to Chautauqua’s sister carrier, Republic Airlines, within 180 days.

Certification delays for Republic Airlines forced its parent company, Republic Airways Holdings, to shift the flights to Chautauqua. American pilots claimed the move violated the portion of their contract that limits AmericanConnection carriers to using 50-seat planes. Chautauqua flies as AmericanConnection from St. Louis.

American’s pilots, represented by the Allied Pilots Association (APA), and management reached an accord late last week that lets Chautauqua fly the jets for 180 days. Management must pay APA a daily penalty during that time totaling about $500,000. If Chautauqua flies the jets beyond 180 days, the daily penalty is about $30,000.

“Under the terms of the letter of agreement (LOA), management acknowledges that operation of 70-seat aircraft by a commuter carrier would violate the APA-AA collective bargaining agreement,” APA said.

American’s management also has to secure agreements with Trans Sates Airlines and Chautauqua banning those carriers from flying aircraft that don’t comply with the scope clause in its contract with APA. Pilots and management are signing an agreement that ensures any future accord with an AmericanConnection carrier stipulates those airlines cannot fly jets not allowed under scope. -LR

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Wow... Still a $500K hit for 180 day's of flying... Kinda rough...

 

[Jack Mahogoff]

Wow... Still a $500K hit for 180 day's of flying... Kinda rough...

$300,000 came out of 4th quarter, the other $200,000 will come out of 1st qtr. '05. Penalty increases to $1mil. if Republic is not certificated by June 30.