Who is doing the new NWA flying? The answer..

[DoinTime]

Now how does this differ from the Compass pay and workrules?

Any reasonable definition of "concession" would have to include a comparison of the existing agreement and a proposed agreement. This is a first contract for Compass so there is nothing to compare it to.

Compass captain rates (rounded to nearest dollar):

1 - 60
2 - 62
3 - 65
4 - 67
5 - 69
6 - 71
7 - 73
8 - 75
9 - 77
10 - 80
11 - 82
12 - 85
13 - 87
14 - 90
15 - 93
16 - 95
17 - 97
18 - 100

While these rates are nothing to write home about they are much better than Mesa, Mesaba, and Skywest and on par with ASA and CHQ.

What justification is there for DW signing the Compass concessionary rates on 70 seat flying????

DW hasn't signed the Compass deal yet. In fact DW will never get to sign it because he will be out of office by the time a full text contract is finished. I still fail to see how a new carrier agreement acheiving near industry average compensation is concessionary.

 

[DoinTime]

A first year FO at compass will make almost $10,000 more per year than a first year FO at NWA mainline.

How do you figure? First year pay at Compass is about $23/hr. First year pay at NWA is about $30/hr.

 

[Monster Buck]

I'll say it again. Bedford and NWA will never again do business.

I know it sounds silly but Bedford is not who NWA is dealing with for RAH. IF you work at RAH and think real hard who up in the high ranks at your airline has a old and good report with NWA you will have your answer. Although I agree that Bedford is in charge in the end, he is not the face man. A few months and it will be, just my bet. I would like to see them at Mesaba, but I will just have to be happy with whatever we fly.

Also, I will also bet that NWA is not going to start a entire new airline from scratch in a market that is so saturated already. They will give thier gifts (planes) to existing airlines and them make them pay. :smash: As usual.

 

[pb1900]

Wayne Heller maybe? I thought Bedford wasn't allowed near Northwest for a few years.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

How do you figure? First year pay at Compass is about $23/hr. First year pay at NWA is about $30/hr.

NWA mainline pay is now $24 an hr 77-110 seats per the new contract, the rates haven't been updated on websites. They also have a 68 hr guarantee compass will have greater than 70. You could potentially get stuck making less than 40K for 10+ years at mainline NWA if you get hired at the wrong time.

 

[DoinTime]

NWA mainline pay is now $24 an hr 77-110 seats per the new contract, the rates haven't been updated on websites. They also have a 68 hr guarantee compass will have greater than 70. You could potentially get stuck making less than 40K for 10+ years at mainline NWA if you get hired at the wrong time.

FYI...the lowest payscale currently in use the DC-9 rate. Theoretically at some point in the future, a Compass FO could make more than a NWA FO but for now its not going to happen.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I just get paid to wiggle a yoke for a couple hours a day

When did pilots become aviation industry experts?

 

[DoinTime]

Not everyone has to be stupid, ignorant, or both.

 

[TAWS]

None of us know what will happen. DUH!!

But, PCL_128, you have ZERO clue about the motives of NWA mngt. They DON'T care who does the flying as long as they make money AND bonuses/stock options move the right direction (theirs that is).
Bedford is only the front man at RAH, albeit a good one. Bedford today is not the same Bedford that ran XJ. He's smarter than ever, we have a good product AND he has options for the 170/175 locked up for quite a while. NWA knows what we do for Delta, and while we have our problems, we still serve up a good product when compared to other regionals. I'm not a kool-aid drinker and know that the music could stop at any time, but I wouldn't be surprised if RAH was flying red tails within a year.
We operate these aircraft well, fuel burn is always a consideration, it was enough to keep UAL happy with us. Ask any C gate agent at ORD, or Delta agent at ATL, if they are happy to work with us. Answer = better completion/on time than Mesa and SkyWest (not bashing, just the facts), also fewer complaints than Mesa, better pax reaction to the aircraft than the CRJ.
Wouldn't it be nice for NWA to offer pax more than the normal regional offering? Especially at a comparable price.

By the way, SEVEN, I like your childish graphics. Did you figure out a plan B yet?

 

[PCL_128]

But, PCL_128, you have ZERO clue about the motives of NWA mngt. They DON'T care who does the flying as long as they make money AND bonuses/stock options move the right direction (theirs that is).

You really don't understand the mentality and motivations of these guys. Think Lorenzo. It's all about ego, not money. They already have all the money they'll ever need or want. They want the ego boost now. That means one thing: control. RAH won't give NWA control of their operation to the degree that NWA management will demand.

Bedford is only the front man at RAH, albeit a good one. Bedford today is not the same Bedford that ran XJ. He's smarter than ever,

Keep swilling that kool-aid.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Doin:

Hourly rate is higher--no argument--but not much as you state; if you'd quibble over one dollar and seventy cents (at my Y7 rate) per hour as "much", then perhaps you need a course in relativism.

 

[TAWS]

Who's the Kool-aid drinker here?
If you drank anymore of DW's juice, you'd be on the front page of Gay Weekly - ALPA edition!
I'm aware of the way the world works - I've been kicked in the nuts a time or two, unlike you PFT boy!
I know that it's not real until you see it on the ramp AND you're getting paid to fly it. I don't drink the (non-alcoholic) beverage offered up by RAH mngt, but you were happy to slurp up all the 9E kool-aid you could, just to get in the left seat of a CRJ, now you're more than happy to talk tough about ALPA and pay/work rules. At least until you're threatened with downgrade/furlough - then you'll be singing a different song! Isn't that right GIA boy??
I'll bet you won't walk that long hard road, if/when it comes down to it. You and the other spineless PFT'ers at 9E will buckle in no time flat!
At RAH, we generally don't hire anyone (these days) who hasn't line experience at another airline (that could change at any time), that means that OUR newbies have an idea what this industry is all about and aren't about to vote in a 1% pay cut, errr, I mean "raise" like SkyWest! Good luck organizing that bunch of CFIs, ALPA.

 

[DoinTime]

Doin:

Hourly rate is higher--no argument--but not much as you state; if you'd quibble over one dollar and seventy cents (at my Y7 rate) per hour as "much", then perhaps you need a course in relativism.

If you got paid your new 70+ seat rate for every hour you credited you may qualify as being "close enough." We all know the truth behind that though.

Every year that goes by you Skywest guys get closer to the bottom of industry and seemingly nobody is noticing. If your not careful, by the time you do manage to get some representation you'll be negotiating from a position of weekness at the trailing edge of your pier group.

 

[SEVEN]

By the way, SEVEN, I like your childish graphics. Did you figure out a plan B yet?

Yeah, getting PIC Turbine time, how about you? Are you still making $22,000/Year gaining your SIC time. Good for you.
Is this what you want to see?

:uzi: TAWS:smash:

 

[TAWS]

Seven,

PIC turbine doesn't matter when you so desperately want to get back to XJ. Obviously flying a KingAir isn't that great a job, or you wouldn't want to go back, would you?
I know what the 135 world looks like - no prettier than the regionals, unless you're with an exceptional company.

I, like many others won't be going back to XJ, nor will I want to fly a red tail again, but if RAH gets any of that, then so be it.
I used to think that XJ guys should get the growth, now I just don't care - they showed all of us that the tough talk was just that! There was never anything behind it, but that's O.K., as everything happens for a reason - I'm happy where I am (for now). You clearly aren't happy where you are, that's why you hang on every word about Mesaba!

 

[SEVEN]

Seven,

PIC turbine doesn't matter when you so desperately want to get back to XJ. Obviously flying a KingAir isn't that great a job, or you wouldn't want to go back, would you?
I know what the 135 world looks like - no prettier than the regionals, unless you're with an exceptional company.

I, like many others won't be going back to XJ, nor will I want to fly a red tail again, but if RAH gets any of that, then so be it.
I used to think that XJ guys should get the growth, now I just don't care - they showed all of us that the tough talk was just that! There was never anything behind it, but that's O.K., as everything happens for a reason - I'm happy where I am (for now). You clearly aren't happy where you are, that's why you hang on every word about Mesaba!

Who cares if I'm interested in what's going on at Mesaba. Why do you care? Does it hurt your feelings that I try and stay up to date on the latest news? The truth is, You will get a recall letter sometime this Spring or sooner depending on your seniority #. You are willing to sit as an FO at Rep. or upgrade within a year or two max just with the replacement aircraft alone at XJ. Don't hate all the Red Tails. You gotta get over it and realize your going to get screwed from time to time. It's the nature of the Business. If you stay at Rep. it's not always going to be great. XJ's union did a good job in my opinion but lost the battle because of the Judge and the entire corupt bankruptcy laws that allowed it.
I'll see you in class this Spring. Until then, Peace Out.

 

[TAWS]

Seven,

I hope you get that recall, and it works out for you and the others who choose to return. What pisses me off about XJ ALPA is that I got furloughed, along with over 200 others - that's fine, because in a union someone has to be thrown under the bus, in order for the group (as a whole) to move forward. With XJ ALPA, they let the whole group slide backwards, because the senior guys were too afraid of life elsewhere, or on another seniority list. This is contrary to unionism and all it stands for. Comair Pilots showed us all how it should be done, and may do it again soon - THEY deserve respect, not XJ Pilots who voted YES.
Wychor has earned his place in history - at the bottom of the barrel, along with Woerthless. I hope Prater does a better job, as he has certainly taken his licks during his career!

Good luck in class, keep a plan B in your pocket.

TAWS

 

[xjhawk]

where is the pay scales posted. are they at airlinepilot central yet
??? for NWA and compass?

 

[Morning Wood]

. Ask any C gate agent at ORD, or Delta agent at ATL, if they are happy to work with us. Answer = better completion/on time than Mesa and SkyWest (not bashing, just the facts), also fewer complaints than Mesa, better pax reaction to the aircraft than the CRJ.
quote]

Maybe that's their perception, but numbers don't lie. For the month of December to date, RAH is 4% better OT, but SkyWest is 1.3% better with completed. SkyWest has 104 more flights a day than RAH does in ORD and carries more than double the passengers. Is one better than the other? Not really. One just has a bigger operation than the other and has 104 more chances for ******************** to go wrong on a given day.

The 170 does kick the CR7's hind quarters though.

 

[bender]

Answer = better completion/on time than Mesa and SkyWest (not bashing, just the facts)

It's not fact until you back it up with evidence. Have a link that compares all 3 airlines against each other? Here's what I found at the Bureau of Transportation:

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/OT_Delay/ot_delaycause1.asp?pn=1&month=99&year=2006

SkyWest looks to have one of the highest on-time performance of all carriers listed. Unfortunately CHQ is not listed.

 

[Dodge]

The answer to the thread question.........Not XJ, just yet. Management will throw one more catastrophy out and get even more concessions from the senior guys that will give away nearly everything if they can just stay in Minnie. Then XJ might get enough airframes to make up for the lost Avro's and Saabs.

Just remember, anything less than 1000 pilots is not growth. We had that before the CRJ's showed up in DTW. Don't let Management or ALPA tell you anything different.

 

[McNugget]

Of course you forgot the specifics of the CCAir case. You were still paying to sit in the right seat of a Gulfstream 1900 while DW was using CCAir pilots jobs as political collateral! Your paying to sit in an airline cockpit did more to damage this profession than anything any CCAir pilot did. Research the CCAir deal and then get back to me......

Careful, dude, I bet some people sniggered at the Hitler Youth back in 1938, too.

Yesterday vs. Modern Times

:laugh:

 

[sweptback]

The 170 does kick the CR7's hind quarters though.

Yes it does, but it burns a ton of gas in comparison.

 

[TAWS]

Bender, ask the SkyWest director of Ops in DEN if he boarded a Shuttle flight recently and asked the crew if he could observe just why/how we get out on time more than SkyWest - it's not rocket science!

Sweptback,
The 170 is still a work in progress - nobody liked the Bus when it showed up, but after the first few years they couldn't get enough of it (when it came to fuel burn). We have MANY Pilots who slow down for burn - just the facts!
UAL/DAL like the 170, they have to figure out how to make it work, so that everyone is happy - they are 90% there.
I'm not bashing anyone, I'm just stating the obvious - I would rather ride in a mainline aircraft than a regional, but if it's a regional route, then I'd rather ride on a 170/175.

 

[bender]

Based on the stats I recently read, SKW is more on-time than Shuttle is.

 

[DoinTime]

Bender, ask the SkyWest director of Ops in DEN if he boarded a Shuttle flight recently and asked the crew if he could observe just why/how we get out on time more than SkyWest - it's not rocket science!

Getting out on-time usually has nothing to do with the flight crew.

Based on the stats I recently read, SKW is more on-time than Shuttle is.

Skywest has great stats because the bulk of their operation is in the middle of nowhere. The only air traffic that is slowing them down is migrating flocks of birds.

 

[rtmcfi]

Getting out on-time usually has nothing to do with the flight crew.





Skywest has great stats because the bulk of their operation is in the middle of nowhere. The only air traffic that is slowing them down is migrating flocks of birds.

Not true on several counts. SkyWest is the dominant UAX carrier ot of ORD. SkyWest is getting killed by everyone in the MST department. HoJets, Mesa, TransStates, RAH, all have better MST times than SkyWest.

 

[Crizz]

Skywest has great stats because the bulk of their operation is in the middle of nowhere. The only air traffic that is slowing them down is migrating flocks of birds.

Bulk of their operation? Like bases in LAX, SFO, and ORD.. you ever been to these places? Try some SFO fog groundstop on for size and play catchup for the remainder of the day with not one single flight on time. Theres nothing anyone can do about it.

Why the he!! would pilots argue about on time performance anyways? Unless of course you're some ASA-hole trying to prove his ALPA-genda.

The ignorance on this board astounds me.

 

[CrownandCoke]

The ignorance on this board astounds me.

now THAT'S the smartest thing I have heard on here in a long time!

In all seriousness, I was flying with a capt (pm me if you want to know who it is) who told me that Mesaba is getting the CRJ-900's and Pinnacle is getting the E-170s. His source - the Mesaba chief pilot. He told me that Compass is not going to exist. I'm very very skeptical, but I guess it's another scenario to this crazy dance.

Drink up

 

[Morning Wood]

Bender, ask the SkyWest director of Ops in DEN if he boarded a Shuttle flight recently and asked the crew if he could observe just why/how we get out on time more than SkyWest - it's not rocket science!

What city was this?