Who in their right mind....

[Kingair1181]

Would go to work at Great Lakes?! $15/hr pay, $1/hr per diem, $7500 training contract for 15 months and you aren’t paid during training!!!! Even if you fly 1000 hours a year and earned another 4000 in per diem, you’d make a massive $19,000. Take away taxes and you’re down to probably just over $1000 a month. Forget the fact that Denver isn’t exactly the cheapest city to live in either. And I am assuming that training takes at least 2 months without a pay check.

I realize that most regional airlines are pretty crummy to begin with but wow GL has to take the cake. A friend who I knew in college recently got hired and he now believes that he’ll have a leg up on those of us holding up for a better regional since he’ll be upgraded in 12 to 15 months and a year later he’ll have his 1000 hours of PIC and be off flying for UPS, FedEx, Continental ect -- fill in your major airline of choice. Moreover, since he doesn’t even have enough money to live and pay off his bills he decided that he can “live off credit cards for a couple of years” til he gets on with the majors…. I just didn’t have the heart to tell him the truth. How can he or anyone be so dumb?!

Are there really pilots that are that desperate to take this job???? Or are they just that dumb and have parents paying all of their bills?

 

[dime line]

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,24/Itemid,61.html


This guy!!

 

[ackattacker]

he now believes that he’ll have a leg up on those of us holding up for a better regional since he’ll be upgraded in 12 to 15 months and a year later he’ll have his 1000 hours of PIC and be off flying for UPS, FedEx, Continental ect -- fill in your major airline of choice.

There is a chance your friend might be right. You never know in this business. I don't condone lowering the bar but what you described is exactly how these companies get their employees. Your friend is taking a big risk BUT it could pay off. I know I might get flamed for saying this but it's true. If he get's his PIC turbine time before you AND makes the right connections AND hits the industry in at the right part of the cycle he MIGHT get that job at the majors well before you.

 

[propjob27]

Works for some, doesn't work for others.

me: Great Lakes, SkyWest, ATA, Continental, FedEX

bud 1: Great Lakes, AirTran, FedEX.

bud 2: Great Lakes, Mesaba

bud 3: Great Lakes, Champion

bud 4: Great Lakes, SkyWest

bud 5: Great Lakes, FedEX

bud 6: Great Lakes, Air Wisconsion, Unknown

bud 7: Great Lakes, Sun Country, Unknown

bud 8: Great Lakes, Southwest

bud 9: Great Lakes, Polar

bud 10: Great Lakes, United, SkyWest, America West, FedEX

So like I said, for some guys it works OK. For some it doesn't.


Amazingly, it does sound like 'Lakes has gotten a little worse, since when I was there upgrade was 6 months and there was no training contract whatsoever.

Your bud may not be at Southwest, FedEX, UPS, Continental, etc the day he gets 1001 PIC turbine, but it's still a more valuable (for career progression) job than flight instructing or flying a Nava-ho.

There's no easy path left in this industry. If he has a choice, yeah sure, tell him to take a job at SkyWest. Quick upgrade and a decent place to work if you're stuck there longer than planned. However, if his choice is sitting in the right seat of a C172, and he's single and his parents are willing to float him some dough, then yeah, he's probably right to take the temp job at 'Lakes.

 

[Kingair1181]

Prop - I realize there is no easy path left, but this juse seems to have gotten out of hand. I believe that the pay use to be $17/hr and you had no training contract. I'd bet that if I calculated out the number of hours that my friend who works at GL now actually works, not even counting time in the hotel, ect, but just at the airport, get his dispatch, pre-flight, post-flight, ect that he might not even make minimum wage.

At least he isn't off at Pacific Wings.

 

[kansas]

Flying for Great Lakes is an investment. Yes, the pay is bad. But, one can make it work even though you aren't going to be living in the penthouse eating caviar every night. At Lakes, if one is cut out to be a pilot at all, they will become a decent stick. Flying in the mountains for 1000 hours/year in a plane with no autopilot tends to do that. At this time, Lakes has a decent reputation with larger airlines, as many are making that next jump, and doing it quickly. Given my low time, my options were: 1) Instruct, build single-engine piston time slowly, with virtually zero pay, hoping to jump to a regional 2) Go to Lakes, build turbine (and hopefully turbine PIC) time quickly, with slightly better than zero pay, hoping to jump to a major. It's a gamble...but isn't everything in this industry? Hopefully it pays off.

 

[808pilot]

where have you been? lakes has been that way for years.....
are you pissed that you got turned down? you have quite a rant going....
lowering the bar? they have never been above it.....stop you moaning....you will never beat the type of flying or the type of people you find at lakes.....if you can make it through lakes, you my friend are a pilot.....
by the way, i recognize your name from the PW threads....didn't you fly for them and defend them? they make lakes look like fed ex....

 

[Hootie9750]

What's even more funny than FO pay is the CA pay. LOL!! I would love to live in Denver and it'd be fun as hell to do the flying they do, but to take a
pay cut from dinking around in a navajo to wait 12 months to be captain on a 1900 and make 23 grand...WTF. I have two buds who work there.
They both:

Have a college degree
Are good dudes
Have dads at profitable majors
-and most importantly-
Parents or Wife pay the bills.

Just too embarrassing for me personally to take home 900 bucks a month while on reserve being an "airline pilot". Good luck to all!!

 

[FlyBunny]

Would go to work at Great Lakes?! $15/hr pay, $1/hr per diem, $7500 training contract for 15 months and you aren’t paid during training!!!! Even if you fly 1000 hours a year and earned another 4000 in per diem, you’d make a massive $19,000. Take away taxes and you’re down to probably just over $1000 a month. Forget the fact that Denver isn’t exactly the cheapest city to live in either. And I am assuming that training takes at least 2 months without a pay check.

I realize that most regional airlines are pretty crummy to begin with but wow GL has to take the cake. A friend who I knew in college recently got hired and he now believes that he’ll have a leg up on those of us holding up for a better regional since he’ll be upgraded in 12 to 15 months and a year later he’ll have his 1000 hours of PIC and be off flying for UPS, FedEx, Continental ect -- fill in your major airline of choice. Moreover, since he doesn’t even have enough money to live and pay off his bills he decided that he can “live off credit cards for a couple of years” til he gets on with the majors…. I just didn’t have the heart to tell him the truth. How can he or anyone be so dumb?!

Are there really pilots that are that desperate to take this job???? Or are they just that dumb and have parents paying all of their bills?

First, pilots that work less than 100/weeks and then demand that they are paid like kings...well, hope you get the picture. Why don't pilots work 40 average week and do other part time jobs and then we'd never have this debate of not making enough.

Second, yes, $19,000 is way more than what an average CFI makes...and GLA will always have plenty of supply this way. Besides, you're flying 121, twin trubine...doesn't get any better than that. And the success stories of those who have come from the GLA supply-chain...well, do your research and see what you find.

Bunny

 

[Kingair1181]

Bunny - 19,000 is way more than what an avg CFI makes? Sorry, I don't buy it. Might be a little more, but not a lot. Most I know who free lance charge around $20/hr and also charge for ground. I completely agree that 121 turbine time is far better than say being a flight instructor in a 172. However, being a CFI you can have another job - waiting tables at night, working around the FBO, ect. I have yet to meet many pilots flying for a regional that have any other job save flying for their company and if they do it's being a CFI 3 or 4 days a month so they are basically stuck making 19k a year at GL.

I am by no means bashing Lakers - from all I hear they are some of the best pilots out there since they fly in a wide range of flight conditions. What I am saying is that I just simply think it's insane that mgmt can get away w/ paying pilot that little. I just couldn't (or it would be very very difficult) afford to live off that little and I really don't have that much debt right now. For those at GL who are doing it on their own it amazes me and props to them. And ya probably most will get their 1000 hrs PIC and move on to a major long before me.

808 -- nope never worked at PW. I interviewed out there over a year ago and decided that I would not work there. Nor can I recall defending them but perhaps a while back I did. I agree, PW makes GL looks great. But I won't go there since that's another topic.

Not trying to pick fights/make a change. I don't think most regionals are much better than GL and ya I probably am just moaning and what not... sorry

 

[Guitar Guy]

To add to the list of where ex-Lakers have gone, there are a lot of them at NetJets. And I second the opinon that hand-flying a 1900 around the mountains of CO sharpens your skills immensely.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

First, pilots that work less than 100/weeks and then demand that they are paid like kings...well, hope you get the picture. Why don't pilots work 40 average week and do other part time jobs and then we'd never have this debate of not making enough.

Bunny

What are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, Kingair first year pay was never $17 per hour in fact it's the same contract we have had since 1997 but thats another story. You can fly 1200 hours a year at lakes if you really wanted to.

I came to lakes because in there wasn't any hiring going on in 03 anywhere else. When others started to hire I was already here and about to upgrade. So I figured I'd stick around and get some PIC

The most recent upgrade time is more like 5 months but I think the average is about 8-9 months.

There are always trade offs no matter where you go.

 

[AWACoff]

Lakes has some of the biggest dicks in the industry. Seriously...you just gotta see Q's! I started at $15.30/hr in '99. 2nd year pay was $17.xx as an FO. I also had a fulltime job in a bike shop for 2 years while sitting reserve at AWAC. Lakes is a great place to go and I always reccomend it to people looking to start their career. Most of the people that rip on Lakes have never flown there. They probably would have failed out of training.

 

[jeroom]

First, pilots that work less than 100/weeks and then demand that they are paid like kings...well, hope you get the picture. Why don't pilots work 40 average week and do other part time jobs and then we'd never have this debate of not making enough.

Second, yes, $19,000 is way more than what an average CFI makes...and GLA will always have plenty of supply this way. Besides, you're flying 121, twin trubine...doesn't get any better than that. And the success stories of those who have come from the GLA supply-chain...well, do your research and see what you find.

Bunny

Sorry dude, I was making almost twice that as a CFI...
Now... this is my salary today for playing around in an RJ.

 

[rickair7777]

First, pilots that work less than 100/weeks and then demand that they are paid like kings...well, hope you get the picture. Why don't pilots work 40 average week and do other part time jobs and then we'd never have this debate of not making enough.

Second, yes, $19,000 is way more than what an average CFI makes...and GLA will always have plenty of supply this way. Besides, you're flying 121, twin trubine...doesn't get any better than that. And the success stories of those who have come from the GLA supply-chain...well, do your research and see what you find.

Bunny

I made $50K as a CFI/CFII/MEI. $35K is easy to achieve if you have any degree of initiative and people skills. If you're just a slacker who wants a company to serve everything up to you on a plate...well that's where you get $8/hr CFIs. The regionals were a big pay cut for me.

Your comments on hours/week were rambling and unclear, but it's hard to hold a second job at a regional today...reserves no longer sit around at most comapanies (they wised up to that), you get called almost daily. And even if you don't get called often, how do you deal with blowing off a scheduled shift at your other job if you do have to fly? You might get away with that once...

If you have a lot of seniority and live in domicile, you might be able to hold a line with enough days off to have another job...but if you're that senior it would probably just be easier to pick up some good open time flying.

If you commute or have a spouse/family, forget about another job.

GLA is not a scab operation, so if you want to do it, great. You might get lucky with that PIC, or you might not. If not, you will be starting over at a regional after a few years.

 

[Trogdor]

All you have to do is look at a place like Mesaba to see why people choose Lakes. Some of those guys have been FO's for years, only to get furloughed and guess what, they get to start over as a regional FO again somewhere else.

 

[Muppets]

Now it is time to hear from current lakers,

Which I am one. Lakes sucks. We all know this. But as a captain on the beech I will take the pepsi challenge that lakers can fly as well as any driver out there. As far as pay, I love the ex lakers who are trying to act like they were filling their car up at $3.15 a gallon back in '95. Just to let you guys know, you are my laker brothers but, things are tragically worse right now in this economy.

And yes, lakes is a way to further your carrer quickly with PIC time......
If your father works at another carrier

Otherwise, we are all in the same boat at GLA....once we get our time we slum it up and head out to Skywest, Netjets, ASA. I think us lakers need to be more realistic in regards to how much this place helps. Ohh yeah, you might be one of the lucky 7-10 who get a Interview with the airbus down the concourse.

 

[Cardinal]

Muppets has it right. Depending on your situation, Lakes is either the best deal in the industry or the worst deal in the industry.

If you're a 40 something dude who struggles with the training environment, has NO contacts, has three children to feed, coming to Lakes is an abysmal decision. If you're 22 with SOLID contacts it's the best decision in the world. To each his own.

 

[flyphish]

First, pilots that work less than 100/weeks and then demand that they are paid like kings...well, hope you get the picture. Why don't pilots work 40 average week and do other part time jobs and then we'd never have this debate of not making enough.

Second, yes, $19,000 is way more than what an average CFI makes...and GLA will always have plenty of supply this way. Besides, you're flying 121, twin trubine...doesn't get any better than that. And the success stories of those who have come from the GLA supply-chain...well, do your research and see what you find.

Bunny

what ever. i made more than $19000 as a cfi. you must have been one of those pilots that will fly for free just to get a job. thats why the industry standard is so low. cause there are those 500 hour guys that will work for $5 an hour. Something has got to give!

 

[Flex81]

Well Kingair, looks like most people disagree with you. The fact is, if you have 500TT and 50ME, you can get hired at lakes if you know someone. No other regional carriers will hire you with that kind of time unless you by a CRJ type rating (which is looked down upon by most). We do have a lot of pilots here that go to good places (mostly frontier and alaska), but most of those guys were here for quite a while. Great Lakes may be financially stressful to work for, but I would rather be here than a lot of places such as TSA, GoJets, or Mesa. The fact is, if you put in your time here, you can check that box that says "1000 turbine PIC". Then even if you go to another regional and the upgrade turns to 10 years, you can still leave for something better. For the record though, I cant wait till the day I log my thousanth hour. If nothing happens by the time I get 1500PIC, then AWAC here I come.