Which way to go-SWA or JetBlue

[Muddauber]

Also consider aircraft type. If you fly for SWA, you better not gain any weight - the 737NG is still quite tight despite being a nice aircraft to fly. The Airbus is an awesome aircraft - very ergonomic and comfortable - plus you get to use a nifty side-stick. All A320/A330 pilots I know LOVE the Airbus line of aircraft and never want to return to the 737s or 757s they previously flew... Just another consideration...

The arrogant Frogs at Airbus design an airplane that is designed to protect itself from the pilot, so it will allow itself to crash trying to prevent you from overstressing it to avoid the crash. Just check out their crashes at Basel, Strausberg, and Merignac. Two of which were accomplished with factory pilots. Nice design. The only military 737 we lost during that period of time was for traditional reasons - Ron Brown's demographically selected unqualified crew.

Boeing's design philosophy is to keep the pilot in the loop. None of the cockpit automation does anything without moving something in the cockpit. Not so in the A320. The autopilot is something that you can't get rid of, only interrupt. When you engage the approach mode, the controls lock-up and you become a passenger. No thanks - not for me.

Muddy

 

[dgs]

Muddauber -- You obviously don't understand the A320 if you think the autopilot cannot be completely disconnected. The controls do not "lock up" in the approach mode. If you don't understand the aircraft, then you have no business making these statements here.

BTW, your comments have nothing to do with Bambam's question, since he already flies the A320 and has a 737 type. I think he knows both aircraft well enough to decide which he would prefer to fly. This is not a question about aircraft types, but companies.

Bambam -- I think if you have to ask this question on a public forum to help you make up your mind, you probably should leave jetBlue. If you can't appreciate how good we have it here at jetBlue and think the grass may be greener at SWA, then by all means step across the fence to see for yourself. Of course, it's different for everybody, but if you are risk adverse and don't share the vision for the future of this company, then go with SWA. There is no doubt that they are tried and true. I have lots of friends who fly for SWA and I always wanted to fly for them ... UNTIL I learned about all the cool things going on at jetBlue. While SWA will still be fun, I don't think you'll find the same level of excitement about the new technology and leading edge developments we have at jetBlue--not just with the airplane, but how we do business. If you're not thrilled to be here, I'm sure there are lots of people who will be thrilled to take your place.

 

[Bambam]

Before this turns into a Boing vs Airbus thing, I would like to say thanks for the input from all.

I would also like to say that the company I work for is great. The planes, mx, people, management are all top notch and the future of both companies is bright.

The only drawback is the double-leg off-line commute required by one carrier and not the other. (Amen Gumbydammit) Moving is not an option due to a family situation.

Albie, as always, an insightful and well thought out response. Thanks.

Dogg, I was not trying to be snide, but from conversations with both of these very intelligent people, I do know that they read this board and I wanted others to know same. I am sorry if that seemed unprofessional to you.

I realize that there are many who would love to be making this decision right now and I am truely blessed to have the chance to make the choice. I appreciate all of the thought put into the responses.

Thanks,

Bambam

 

[TriStar_drvr]

I'm sure SWA is more fun.

You may find this hard to believe, but many pilots at airlines other than SWA actually have fun on the job too.

However, I'd take a job at Southwest for the job security. At my age, and with my family responsibilities, I'd give up a little fun for a more secure, stable environment. Although in this industry, nothing is a sure thing anymore. To the thread starter, good luck on whichever one you choose, and whatever you decide, don't look back and second guess yourself.

 

[dogg]

Bam Bam, I just re- read my reply to your post and realized how unprofessional it was. You caught me at a rare moment and I apologize for that. Just never seems like you see a civilian on the board with that question. Go for the gold and don't look back............

 

[HOUMAN]

BamBam
This thread is interesting. It is hard to get good advice when there is a conflict of interest (i.e. SWA poolies telling you to stay at jetBlue so they can move up on the "list", or jetBlue guys telling you to bail so they can move up a notch on the old senority list).
Again.... Good luck on your choice.

 

[Muddauber]

Muddauber -- You obviously don't understand the A320 if you think the autopilot cannot be completely disconnected. The controls do not "lock up" in the approach mode. If you don't understand the aircraft, then you have no business making these statements here.

I understand the Bus and the accidents they've had because the crew couldn't overcome the automation. Read the reports.

Something I don't know about the airplane is - does the A320 use the same type of all composite vertical fin assembly as the A300?

From a prior life, I remember when PentaStar got their Airbuses. At first the senior Gulfstream Pilots were clamoring to get into the airplane - after flying it they were clamoring to get out of it.

Do you remember when after the Strausberg accident the joke in the industry was, " What's the difference between an Airbus 320 and a McCullough Chainsaw? And the answer was: " About a thousand trees a minute."

Muddy

 

[JayDub]

Bullcrap meter is pegged.

I understand the Bus and the accidents they've had because the crew couldn't overcome the automation. Read the reports.

There's never been an A-320 family accident with the autopilot engaged.

From a prior life, I remember when PentaStar got their Airbuses. At first the senior Gulfstream Pilots were clamoring to get into the airplane - after flying it they were clamoring to get out of it.

IF this conversation happened at all, I suspect it was just with one person. We have hired (or atleast interviewed) half of the American pilots from that department. I had two of them act as my F.O on multiple trips. That was never the sentiment expressed from either of these two guys. First, they had had a gut-full of the Gee Whiz (G-IV) flying. They'd been to every destination they ever go and had the muscle cramps from that little cockpit to prove it. Airbus trips were more likely three or four three-day trips a month to a darn nice place to have an over night. Not a bad way of life. Second, neither these guys, or any one they were aware of, got a Boeing type to fly a "real" airplane. In fact, they could have had Gulfstream jobs, but turned them down.

Do you remember when after the Strausberg accident the joke in the industry was, " What's the difference between an Airbus 320 and a McCullough Chainsaw? And the answer was: " About a thousand trees a minute."

How about we don't try anymore jokes? If you insist, I heard a real funny one about a 737 and a gas station...

The only military 737 we lost during that period of time was for traditional reasons - Ron Brown's demographically selected unqualified crew.

How many 737's does the military fly? Not exactly representative. If you want to go that route, let's compare the number of military 737 accidents to the number of military A-320 accidents. Seems to me the running total would be 1-0.

Bambam,

This is one of those questions your Dad used to answer for you; "if you have to ask, I think you already know the answer." Best of luck in one of the best choices a man could possibly have to make right now. Take care.

JayDub

 

[Race Pilot]

Do you remember when after the Strausberg accident the joke in the industry was, " What's the difference between an Airbus 320 and a McCullough Chainsaw? And the answer was: " About a thousand trees a minute."

I was going to stay out of this Airbus vs. Boeing thing but I must now say this; people died in that accident so it's not real funny. If that's all you guys have to talk about while flying then you must have a very boring job.

BTW, I have flown a few of Seattle's finest planes as well as some built in Georgia and others as well. I am now learning to fly the Airbus and I must say this is the most awesome airplane I've ever seen. I have been on many of the NG Boeings as well as some of the smaller toy (read corporate) aircraft and none compare to what the Airbus is capable of doing. And what's great about it is it's real fun to hand fly too. Maybe we don't do it a whole lot (work smarter, not harder) but when we do it's a blast.

"Please, can't we just all get along" Rodney King

 

[UM#1]

Re: Bullcrap meter is pegged.

There's never been an A-320 family accident with the autopilot engaged.


JayDub

Are you Sure?

From the Airdisaster.com website:

11 years ago today, on January 20, 1992, an Air Inter Airbus A320-111 crashed while on approach to Strasbourg, France. 87 of the 96 passengers and crew aboard were killed.

While on approach into Strasbourg the aircraft impacted the side of a mountain. The cause of the crash was found to be a faulty design in an autopilot mode selector switch which led the flight crew to inadvertently select a 3,300 foot per minute descent rate on the approach instead of the desired 3.3° flight path angle.

 

[RightBettor]

Look deep...

Look deep into my avatar and screen name and there you'll find the answer. Want to know which company is the best? You'll likely have to wait until you retire to know for sure. Meanwhile know the layout of the table, the rules, the odds for each bet, the house advantage on those bets, and roll the dice my friend. When you retire you can ask, "So, did the dice win?"

As for me I am going to SWA in the near future and I'll certainly do my part over the next 29 years to see that the dice win at Southwest.

"Change one hundred! Good luck sir."

 

[JayDub]

The cause of the crash was found to be a faulty design in an autopilot mode selector switch which led the flight crew to inadvertently select a 3,300 foot per minute descent rate on the approach instead of the desired 3.3° flight path angle.

It's called an FCU. It's the panel the altitude selector is located on. It's a direct interface for the auto-pilot, which doesn't mean the actual auto-pilot was engaged. I'll try to find a more in-depth report when I have a second. I am Mr. Mom today, so I'll be running around.

Again, I don't mean to fan the flames on this "Boeing vs. Airbus" thing, but there were way too many inaccuracies to let pass. IMHO, when it comes down to it, quality of life is a whole lot more to do with the original topic than who makes the airplanes you'll fly. I'd rather be home 17 days a month than to fly a rocket ship for 25 days a month.

Take Care.

JayDub

 

[AlbieF15]

Interesting thread so far....now a couple random thoughts since I'm on a long layover.

TRI STAR DRIVER--you're right. You CAN have fun at other companies besides SWA. Not a slam on anyone, but I spent T-Day in INDY at a hotel with about 70 other FDX guys, and it was like a squadron/FDX training/UPT reunion. It was one of the highlights of my first year on the line. Had fun on quite a few other nights when I do (gulp) hub turn (rare occassion!) and bump into tons of guys I know from college, UPT, or AF assignments. I've met guys I've fought on DACT deployments, friends of friends, etc....and it usually IS kind of fun catching up and shooting the breeze (even if it IS 1 a.m) over coffee or breakfast. No...I don't get boobies in the face from those great looking SWA flight attendents, but then again....I married above myself and the fact that I don't get that kind of temptation around only makes my wife a tad bit happier when I'm away on the road. (I still think FDX guys need IDBoobies, sort of like ID90s, but I digress....)

DGS--I understand your loyalty to JB, and how you might wonder why anyone would consider leaving. Point to ponder is the fact this guy likely has been thinking SWA for 5, 10, 15? years, and all of a sudden he has to let go of a his life's dream job. When I was interviewed at JetBlue, I was a Delta wannabe since about age 18 (freshman year at AU had a roomie who's dad was a Delta Captain). After researching, flying JB, and looking at the industry, I actually figured out I'd more than likely be waaay better off at JB (even prior to 9/11) due to the unique opportunity to start so early in a company and get senior so quickly. So...even though I was excited about Jetblue, knew it was likely to be the best place to start my career that fall, when I drive through ATL on 85 and countless Delta 757s take off over my head I can't help but remember how BAD I wanted to do that one day. Bam2 may not be going to SWA...but when he finally gets the call from his former "dream" job you have to understand a certain amount of wistfulness and indecision.

Family considerations for domiciles go beyond "I like this city's recreation, climate, schools, etc". I have older in-laws and a widowed mother...moving has serious ramifications for a lot of other people in my world besides me. Another part of the equation is commuting and obligations to the ANG or Reserves. I don't know if B2 is considering continuing his service, but I urge most guys who CAN to DO it. As I wrestled with my FDX verses JB choice, I had pretty much decided to either do minimum participation in the ANG or quit after a year or two and move closer to a JB city if I went with JB. However, the sickening sights on 9/11 convinced me that no.....d@mn it....I HAD to stay in the ANG to continue to serve. Leaving now, after we had been attacked, just didn't "feel" right, and I thought if I quit at this point I'd have a hard time looking in the mirror. My ANG unit, like many out there, has a 50 mile radius rule. You can live where you like--as long as you can get to work in a hour! Faced with a double commute for 6 years (FLL was NOT official at the time...in fact LGB was likely the next pilot base at JB), I chose instead to work for a great company that just happened to be within driving distance in a pinch. I won't go into all the pros/cons again...that was another thread...but the point was it wasn't an easy choice and there were a lot more complex issues than "this company isn't stable enough" or "its too new", etc. BamBam is likely dealing with a lot of issues that are well outside the scope of the fine folks at either company. Instead of getting torqued at guys who leave JB for other carriers, look at it as validation that the guys JB hires are the kind of guys that are in demand at other carriers even when thousands of qualified pilots are on the street.

And...if Dean really does read the theads.....I wish he send me a PM just so I could tell him again how much I appreciated the offer and how torn I was to have to go another direction. I'm sure if Bam2 stays or goes....he will also have some conflicting emotions.

Race pilot--hope your happy! I know your choice was tough, too! I can't imagine, especially with the safety net of a military retirement, a better place to have fun than Jetblue. If I'd been in the service long enough to retire like you and Flipper perhaps I'd be there too.

As for the 737 verses airbus discussion, the fact is they are both deathtraps waiting to kill hundreds of inncents lives. The primary reason is because neither has a flight engineer like the 727 or an RFO like the MD-11 to keep the captain and f/o fed, watered, hot or cool enough, on speed and on altitude during approaches, and generally happy. So...all you 737 and airbus Nazis consider yourself corrected and chastised.

See you at the tables, Right Bettor!

 

[Yahtzee]

PS, I’m sure that Yatzee will be happy to take whatever job you turn down!

Beechdriver,

With all the qualified folks in the applicant pools at JB or SWA, it could be a long time before I hear from either JB or SWA. Heck, I'm still hoping for one of the SWA update letters. But I appreciate the thought! Please tell the family hello and by the way, Bill C. says "Hi"

Bam Bam...Congrats! Good on you for being in this position.

Last week I was put in a similiar situation with a solid offer from one AMC Reserve unit, and then the strong possibility of flying in the reserve unit where I'm currently stationed. For the past five days, my stomach has been in knots, knowing the movers are schdeduled to come next week. Although, I have a solid offer from one unit, the current jet is where I'm comfortable and staying put would offer the least amount of stress if I were ever blessed with an offer from JB or SWA.

On the other hand, the AMC unit took a chance on me when they didn't have to as they still have a large stack of applicants. It's a great unit in an awesome town, and the plane ain't bad either....coupled with an easy drive to Athens! I know I'm blessed. Chances that I'll actually be in the U.S. next fall to watch my beloved DAWGS: Magic 8 Ball says "Outlook Not So Good" TiVo or Replay TV are high on my shopping list.

JB and SWA are both great companies comprised of great hard working friendly people who care about their co-workers, their customers, and the companies themselves. My best advice: if you haven't already done so, pray about it. I'll include you in mine.

Yahtz

 

[SpeedBird]

I got a Tivo for Christmas and its the best gadget I've had in a long while. I don't know why I waited so long to get one. They are worth every penny.

Sorry for the thread drift folks.


















i got a TIVO