Which reginal treats it's employees'....

[CaptOtis]

I can offer some info. on Horizon--

It seems to come up as a great regional often on these lists so maybe some facts are in order.

The positives:
1) We do have an excellent 401(k). Company matches dollar for dollar up to 10%. Hard to find that in this industry or many others.

2) We have an "industry leading contract". The high end jet captains can make up to 118/hour. Just be prepared to grow old waiting for a jet captain slot.
3) We get to fly by Mt. Rainier in the great northwest on a daily basis.
4) We have 15 CRJ-700s. 15 more on order by end of '05. Good destinations like Calgary, Montana, Arizona, California.
5) We have duty rigs.
6) Did I mention you get to fly by Mt. Rainier?
7) We have excellent crew meals. Really!


The negatives:
1) The F/Os get paid by seniority regardless of what they fly. So senior F/Os who stay in the Dash-8 (200 or 400) can make jet pay while jet F/Os make Dash pay. I realize this is how most companies start for the first year, bet it never ends as long as you are an F/O. In fact your pay may fluctuate from bid to bid depending on how many RJs, Dash 8-400s, and Dash 8-200s there are and how many F/Os are flying each. Sound complicated? You are right. Sometimes it is hard to plan a budget on a moving paycheck.

2) We used to have four crew bases, now only two: Portland and Seattle. And the Seattle base is only a small Dash-8 200 base. So if you don't live anywhere near Portland, commute or move. It will never change.

3) Upgrades? The glacier on Mt. Rainier moves faster. New hires can plan on at least 4-5 years. I've been here nearly three and have 2-3 to go to upgrade into a Dash 8. Supposedly they will start moving when we buy some new planes, but no announcement yet. Watch this space!

4) We get paid scheduled vice actual and not the higher of the two. Holding, weather, diverts, etc. mean nothing. Only the company published scheduled route time is what you get paid on (1 of the 3 parameters in the duty rig)

5) We have a 35 day bid. Try planning your vacation 6 months ahead from today. What bid is that in? Then try and figure out how your pay gets computed since we get paid every two weeks and we have a min guarantee. The per diem/clean-up check is on a five week schedule. Believe me, even the payroll folks are confused.

.

The bottom line is this: If you like the northwest, Horizon is your airline. You can make a career here, just don't aspire to jet captain. We have 12-14 year captains that can't hold jet. A Q-400 is the best you can hope for. A Q-400 captain can make 70-80K or so. Me? I'm hangin' on for the ride and enjoying the view of Mt. Rainier while I wait for my upgrade.

 

[Mookie]

Don't forget the free microbrews flowing in the back!!! One week Full Sail, one week Widmeer, another Red Hook. Far and away the best.

If you don't mind me asking, how happy are ya'll at Horizon with Teamsters? I used to jumpseat with you guys alot, and it didn't seem that alot of people were too pleased with their representation. Also, how long did it take to get your current contract signed? Lastly, do you guys think that you gave up too much quality of life stuff to get the pay?

Confucious say...
If grasshopper can't see Mt. Ranier, tis raining...
If can see Ranier, it's about to start raining.

Thanks,
-Mookie

Hey Andy...How junior is SBA going to go on the CRJ????

 

[Southbound]

the teamster skinny

To answer your question... in my opinion, I don't think the Teamsters can provide our pilots anything we couldn't get with an in-house union. Keep in mind that's just my take. We have lots of guys who put their heart and soul into union work which is beneficial for the pilot group. Would the results of that effort be any different if I paid dues to an "Assoc of QX Pilots", instead of some UPS truckdrivers union? I don't think so. As with any union or group it's effectiveness is correlated directly to the contributions of individuals working toward a common goal. Call the group ALPA, Teamsters of an in house union. I personally don't think the Teamsters have much of a pilot's perspective.

Nothing against those truckers because we all know they have a much better contract then any of us can hope to. My point is, when I get the "Teamsters Monthly" or whatever the magazine is called, it's all about the janitors local 27 trying to fight oppression from the City of Detroit, or the photo of the angry truckers saying how they will "show" UPS or else. It is not an airline union.

To answer your other questions, the contract took over 4 years to get and it is effective until sept 2006. I don't think we really sacrificed too much to get our pay rates. The contract itself was "industry leading or better" at the time of signing though it is not without a few flaws. All in all, a fair contract. The catch is that Horizon has time and time again chosen to "interpret" the language of the contract to suit some very short sighted plans instead of reading the contract and abiding by it the way intended at signing. They (the company) has paid and are continuing to pay for these mistakes in the form of a pilot group that is no longer the going the extra mile for them (the company). It is now US vs THEM and that is no way to do business in the airline world, especially now. SO

To end a very long vent, I find it interesting that a company with one of the best products in the airline biz, flies the best equiptment, and gets paid on par with most peers is NEVER mentioned in any of these boards on anyones "top 10 places to work" list. The reasons are a 1.) glacial paced movement due to no real growth for the past decade and 2.) some managers that still don't know how to treat people. Get rid or these two things and Horizon will again make the top list. There is hope.
BTW, my list would have to go Air Wisc and Skywest in no particular order because I am an out west kind of guy and I have never met anyone from those two companies who had bad things to say.
Cheers

 

[Andy Neill]

Mookie,

I can't tell yet. I'm betting the folks that are in the Brasilia there will be putting in their bids for the jet real soon and, because of that, seniority requirement for the LEFT seat of the jet at SBA will spike big time.

We'll just have to see who bids it and who doesn't.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

My only worry in this industry today, is a company that's at the mercy of MGT. A non union carrier like Skywest and I will admit that they treat their people great but if it's so great why is it that mgt there fights during voting to keep you guys from voting in a union. What type of protection do you have if mgt wants to get
rid of you? What do you do when you feel that you have been passed over or scheduling says that by their calculations you are good to work another hour putting you at 8:01hrs of flying for the day. What is going to happen on the day that Skywest enters into an agreement that is great financially for the company but causes the pilots to be used as a whipsaw. At some point you guys are going to see the true head of the beast, I hope not but you just might.

WD.