Which path would you choose?

[1900cpt]

"If you had 200, and were offered 500 in the next year as 135 sic in a 402 would you take that over flying 1,000 in little cessnas?"

Tough call, when could you upgrade in the 402?? PIC time is important. Flying around in "little cessnas"....what kind of flying is that...pipeline, cfi? 1000 hrs is a lot of time, especially if its pic...small cessna or not.

135 time is also great....make sure the sic time in the 402 is legit and loggable too. Be glad that you have a few options....some people dont have any choice...or very few right now.

How about the 135 gig....with some instructing on the side. That way you get the 135....you learn a lot teaching, and all the teaching is pic!!

1900cpt

 

[JediNein]

Pipeline Gig

Howdy!
The local pipeline outfit was hiring last week. They had a 3 line ad in the local newspaper. That was it.

The ad is not in the paper this week so I am assuming poor Mike has a 5" stack of resumes on his desk.

Of course with that kind of a job, the one that gets it usually shows up ready to work at 4 AM in the morning.

350Driver, are you at Airnet?

Thanks!
Jedi Nein

 

[Timebuilder]

I don't want to start another p***ing match, but unless the 402 job meets the requirements for SIC, then none of the non-pic time there will be loggable. If you have your multi, the part 91 dead legs can be logged as sole manipulator PIC time.

Assuming you are in your twenties, you have the time available to really learn aviation as an instructor. You are not "under the gun" as I am, trying to make a career in the limited time available.

I'd instruct, get the ATP, and as the industry recovers in the next 18 months you will be in a great position to forge ahead. A good amount of experience as a CFI, II, MEI will serve you well at interview time. As I mentioned Airnet looks specifically for instructor experience.

135 SIC time is valuable, but only if it meets the SIC requirements. I have TONS of unloggable time in a Navajo as a copilot. I only did it to get the loggable, and valuable, PIC time on those dead legs. The company was not so busy that I had difficulty working the charter around my flight students. The students ALWAYS came first, not the 1.0 of PIC I would log as a part of my service to the charter Co.

In your situation, ask yourself this: will I fly in that turbine equipment fifteen to twenty hours a week? Will I be able to log an hour of PIC turbine every day? Will the boss tell me that he is looking at me as a future captain? Will he tell me what I will make as a captain? Are his present captains happy to be there, or is it a case of least of the possible evils?

If only a part time schedule is available, perhaps your best course is to instruct and do the charter work part-time. Maximize your possibilities.

 

[bobbysamd]

SIC time

350Driver, point taken. Timebuilder, point taken.

It is always easy to deal in absolutes. Now, if the 135 SIC is 100% legit and offers a righteous chance to upgrade to the left seat, that's another matter. I also agree with 350's point about the turbine. But, if I had to choose between a job in which I can log real PIC multi and the legit SIC turbine job, I'd still take the PIC multi job, everything else being equal. But, looking back on my experiences, that's what I would've done.

Sometimes, these are tough decisions and come in shades of gray and are not black-and-white. Of course, as we all know, aviation business doesn't always deal in absolutes. <sigh> You have to think about it hard, get input, make a decision and hope it works out for the best. For that matter, that's true for every job. You interview, you're on your best behavior, the employer will put his best foot forward, and you hope you've made the right decision.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[ILS JNKY]

options

Well 3&4 sound good, but what is the real trade off>

I have 500 hours at this time , this is what i'am planning fly 4.3hrs
per day starting june 15th through jan15 2003 and this will total 1500 hrs , give or take a few, offier to split twin time and cross country time, teach.

Eat sleep and drink flying just to get done , then go find an air cargo company and fly all night

So what ever it takes to get done , it may not be as direct as i want it , but one thing is for shure i will get don .

Best of luck to you and just keep chipping a way at it , and before you realize it your there.

 

[Britpilot]

Get multi engine pic, nuff said

 

[Caveman]

Take two pilots with 500TT. One rides in the right seat of a Navajo. It is not loggable 135 time. He flies about 10 hours a week and gets to log 2 hours a week as PIC on the empty legs. In 2 years that pilot now has 700TT and 200 ME.

The other pilot chooses flight instruction and also flies 10 hours a week of which 8 are in a 152 and 2 are in a Seminole. In two years that pilot now has 1500TT and 200ME.

Which one is more competitive? Pilot A still can't even get a job as PIC with the company he has worked for for 2 years. Pilot B is eligible to get his ATP, can act as PIC for a 135 company, and when competitive hiring minimums come back down would probably be offered an interview at most regionals.

Having said that, I've already discovered that aviation is a capricious and sometimes cruel mistress. You do everything by the book and it still could bite you in the ass. Other times you take a chance and color outside the lines and it works out fine.

Of my friends that were flight instructors most of those that stuck around and got their 1200/200 are either out of work or are back flight instructing. Two survived the furloughs at Eagle and COEX. Eight did not (2 from Eagle, 6 from COEX). Another was furloughed from Skyway (just recalled).

I have several other friends that quit flight instructing with about 500-600TT to pursue nontraditional opportunities.

2 went with a freight company that needed somebody in the right seat of a Bandit. I castigated them for what I perceived to be a poor choice. I tried to get them to stick with flight instructing. I was their boss and their friend so I had some influence. Nevertheless off they went. Both of them are now still employed with 121 carriers and are loving life (1 at CMR/1 at SkyWest).

Another one managed to find a corporate job on a light jet. Never underestimate the benefit of networking. The main reason he got the job was that he and the Chief Pilot of that jet were smoking buddies. Seriously. There were at least 4 other pilots that occasionally flew for the guy and all of them equally or more qualified than the guy that got the job, but none of them smoked. In the course of burning one together out on the ramp 3 or 4 times a day they developed a friendship and it eventually got him a job.

Another picked what I thought was a well thought out and smart choice. He enlisted in the local F-16 guard unit as an MP and started night classes at the local ERAU remote campus. He quit his CFI job and took one flying a Bonanza once or twice a week for a local construction company. They paid him a nice salary and he was free to finish his education. The plan was to finish his degree and apply for a commission through the guard. I spoke with him at length and guided him to ask the right questions of the guard unit and to evaluate the realities of his choice. Frankly, I thought he made a good one. It was a long term plan. Right now he is somewhere in SW Asia humping an M-16 around an airbase perimeter. Thanks Osama.

Another guy quit instructing to take the now vacant Bonanza job. He is retired from another career and doesn't mind hanging out in the area until his dream job with Skywest becomes available. Where he lives is a Skywest domicile.

Another took a job as an A&P with a firefighting outfit. He just wasn't interested in flight instructing. He flies himself and his toolbox in the company Aztec to wherever the tankers are and provides mechanical support. The last guy that did his job is now the Capt in a DC6 tanker and within a couple of years he should be too.

Me? I'm boring. I flight instructed until I had 2500TT and then applied to my regional of choice. I was hired and then promptly went on strike, was fired, furloughed and then recalled. I was questioned on my choices too. Why wait for Comair for 8 months when you could be at COEX or Eagle in 30 days? What about Comair's labor problems? What are you going to do if they go on strike? All valid questions but I didn't think Eagle or COEX were good choices for me so I waited. I'm looking like a genius at this point but it was more good fortune than brilliant planning.

I guess the moral of the story is.... who knows? Traditional usually works, but not always. With apologies to Frost the road less travelled is sometimes a deadend. Once in a while though it has a pot of gold at the end of it. Try to make informed choices, rely on whatever guides you spiritually, and just do the best you can. Add in a little karma and living by the golden rule and everything will work out just the way it's supposed to. Maybe.......

 

[bobbysamd]

Cruel mistress

And, then, you take someone like me who had something like 3200 total and 800 of multi when commuters were last hiring in 1991, with most of that time earned through paid work and not through P-F-T or time-building gimmicks. Competitive mins were at least 1500 total and 500 of multi. I did everything by the book, Kit Darby's book and others. The best I could do with that was get (sometimes) better instructing jobs.

Cruel mistress, indeed.

Sometimes all you can do is think through your plans carefully, do the best you can, and get lucky.

 

[350DRIVER]

I have to say that even from a "time building" standpoint which I am starting to see a trend of opinions suggesting to go the route that will get you "there" the quickest- Well where is there.-? IF for some reason you DO choose to go the 135 SIC route YOU can still instruct on the weekends as well as your off days.( all PIC time.)- It seems like alot of the opinions regarding the 135 SIC "debate" is using the Navajo as the 135 "poster" aircraft- we must NOT forget that a very large amount of King Air's as well as other well known turboprops are being flown daily (and quite popular) in 135 operations. Most of your larger 135 flight departments have a much diversified fleet with advancement opportunities for someone like yourself down the line. IS 135 SIC time so much better & more respected than any other flying you could choose at your point in your career.??- <NO..however this has opened quite a few doors for me as well as growing in knowledge & "experience"....- Whatever you choose I truly do wish you luck and I am somewhat confident that IF you choose the 135 SIC position that you won't be dissapointed in your choice.

Jedi- AirNet does NOT operate King Air's....

3 5 0
Lanc- will answer the message..

 

[avbug]

I'm very disappointed that not a soul has addressed the best answer (albeit unoffered). Clearly, blackmail is the way to go. Set up the boss you want to work for, in a compromising situation, get photos, and let nature get it's course. Save enough cash in reserve to bump off the boss if things get out of hand, and have a ball.

Flight time you can log in your book; write it in, make it up; it's worthless.

As always experience can't be bought.

Climb the great curtain all you want, but at the end of the day, the road most travelled isn't always the best one. Find the one that works for you, not the one that works for everyone else. Get employed first and foremost; a job in the hand is worth a dozen in the help wanted column. Next, be a choosey beggar.

If you do get a choice, take the one that gives you the best expeirence. Not just hours, not just the job, but the one that will benifit you personally the most as a human being, aviator, pilot, and all around good guy or gal.

Have a ball.