where's the xjt gouge?

[wannab0133]

anyone have info on the xjt interviews today? anyone? newman?

 

[sewerpiper]

Patience Darling.....................

 

[rk772]

Is there any chance of 70 or 90 seat ERJs in the future or is there a scope clause against that.

 

[erj-145mech]

Continentals scope clause is all jet flying over 59 certificated seats to be done by CAL.

 

[Stearmandriver]

Scope? CAL?? LOL!!!

ERJ-Mech...

That is indeed CAL's "scope" clause, if allowing unlimited 50 seat RJ's can be called scope. Doesn't really apply to the question of whether or not we at XJET can get bigger airplanes. Since they spun us off, we can do anything we like! Just can't fly them as Calex airplanes, meaning we'd need a contract with someone else (we obviously don't have the resources in place to operate them independently). Of course, mgmt. is holding off on fleet additions until they finish up our contract, and yours. Did you see Reams comments at the investors meeting? Gettin a little antsy, isn't he?

Hopefully, by the time this is over with, they'll be paying both the pilots and mechanics so much money the bastards won't be able to afford a J-3! If not, I for one will be proud to vote no till the doors close.

 

[Mr Hat]

Hopefully, by the time this is over with, they'll be paying both the pilots and mechanics so much money the bastards won't be able to afford a J-3! If not, I for one will be proud to vote no till the doors close.

Please, tough words from an FO with no PIC time. Have resolve and stick to your guns with the contract negotiations but I am sick of the bravado. You'll be proud, when your sitting there as a CFI again. I will strike if I have to, I certianly hope it never comes to that. I am all about a fair contract but I am not looking to "shut this f----n place down!" Lets try and show some professionalism here eh? It is a public forum for cryin out loud.

 

[hagen]

Mr.Hat with all due respect I have no prob shutting this mother down..I'm sick and tired of living paycheck to paycheck. I can't afford a house, or even a newer car...I would like to get married one day but I don't see that happening anytime soon either...

I made a whole 28 grand last year up from 25 the year before that and 17 grand my first year.. Meanwhile all my friends are surging past me getting married, getting a house, and starting families...Hell I'm still paying off college loans, no car payment, and barely getting by...Enough is enough

Oh but I did get a 1.50 raise...Nice but I have to go see the CP now because I called in sick 2 weeks ago...I think it was from the 30 cent taco stand in GDL...Sorry it was all I could afford....Maybe next time I can fly with you and we can eat prime rib....If your making soo much coin...

4th year pay (happy nova?) still on reserve never held a line...Can you say that?? I'm not talking being a cpt on reserve either...I can always go back to CFIing...I never made any money here so it won't be like I'm taking a huge paycut...I'll probably go back to school and do something different though...Again 4 years and nothing to show for it but ulcers....There comes a point where its a tough pill to swallow...Do I enjoy my job...sometimes....but not as much as I used to...thats the sad fact...A dream has become a stagnant sore...And because I didn't get a degree with anything worthy to fall back on (aviation major) I'm treading water for now...But for how long????

money should never be a motivator to do something but it does come into play when trying to plan your future....

So in the meantime I will still go to work, try to keep my car running, and keep paying rent....Maybe one day is what I keep telling myself....Hope its a dangerous thing but its all I got!!!!

Not flaming here just giving you my perspective on things...I'm not about to sacrifice anymore of my happiness for people who won't even pay me a livable wage...

Its a great place to work don't get me wrong but pay me like a professional and they will see me bust my butt everyday I come to work...Until then I'll just get by I guess...

 

[Nova]

4th year still on reserve never held a line...Can you say that?? I'm not talking being a cpt on reserve either...

...Again 4 years and nothing to show for it but ulcers....

4 years? If you're sitting reserve you've been here for 3 years and are probably on 4th year pay. Stop switching the two. I haven't even been here 4 years and have never unvolutarily sat reserve in over 3 years. In fact, I'm in the top 40% of the FO's in CLE which is a bit more senior without being here 4 years.

Never held a line? I find that hard to believe as well. You list the 120 under your aircraft flown. Never held a line on the 120? If you didn't get furloughed then you probably were a line holder at some point.

I agree with Mr. Hat, stop thumping your chest and grow up. Yeah, the pay sucks but we're working on that but inflating your job woes? Please, you're not going to get any more sympathy even from your fellow pilots.




....crap, my first post here. Last thing I need is another crackpipe.

 

[hagen]

ok know it all.... I think I know what I have or have not been able to hold..4th year pay so yes 3 years, flown the 120 never held a line, AGAIN NEVER HELD A LINE...Do I need to be more specific?..Last year I was in EWR never held a line.. again NEVER HELD A LINE....
Here is what I hold starting this month I can now hold the 6 am reserve...Up from the 3 am reserve...

I'm not thumping my chest of any kind so I don't know where you got that from...You tell me how I am thumping my chest...Seeing how you know it all...

Enjoy CLE glad to know things are happy in your neck of the woods..

Why don't you do a little research on the median income up there in CLE? I know what it is in IAH and I'm not even close to it..

Inflating my job woes???Tell me how I'm doing that..This is MY yes MY perspective...I guess we have different goals..Being able to provide for a family ranks high on my list..Maybe it doesn't on yours...

 

[Nova]

ok know it all.... I think I know what I have or have not been able to hold..4th year pay so yes 3 years, flown the 120 never held a line, AGAIN NEVER HELD A LINE...Do I need to be more specific?..Last year I was in EWR never held a line..

To be honest I cut you the benefit of the doubt and thought you were closer to being here 4 years than 3 but that was a mistake. If you never held a line in EWR and are still on reserve in IAH you probably just hit your 3 year mark in the last few weeks making you a late Jan or early Feb 2001 hire. That's quite a bit different than saying you've been here for 4 years. How's that for knowing it all?

What do you expect to happen when you miss getting furoughed by only a handfull of pilots? You are the bottom of the list. First you feel lucky for not being put on the street but now you want everyone to feel sorry for you because you've been treated like a junior pilot for too long?

I'm not thumping my chest of any kind so I don't know where you got that from...You tell me how I am thumping my chest...Seeing how you know it all...

Boy, not only are you reediting your posts but you're deleting them as well. Mr. Hat quoted part of your little rant earlier but you were so proud of your statements that you deleted it. So there is a small taste of your chest thumping.

Why don't you do a little research on the median income up there in CLE? I know what it is in IAH and I'm not even close to it..

News flash chief, we all know how little money is being made by FO's flying 50 seat jets around. What are you hoping to accomplish here by telling other pilots about it? Yes, I'm making less than other professionals but, as I said before, we're working on fixing that. Put away the pitch forks and torches, there are some productive means to help the cause.

 

[hagen]

What do you expect to happen when you miss getting furoughed by only a handfull of pilots? You are the bottom of the list. First you feel lucky for not being put on the street but now you want everyone to feel sorry for you because you've been treated like a junior pilot for too long?


Boy, not only are you reediting your posts but you're deleting them as well. Mr. Hat quoted part of your little rant earlier but you were so proud of your statements that you deleted it. So there is a small taste of your chest thumping.

You really need to stop putting words in my mouth..Did I ever say anything about feeling lucky I wasn't put on the street...Nope

Did Mr.Hat ever quote anything I said? I think not...Read man Read!!!!...Tell me what I have deleted? Nothing....I don't know where you get this stuff from????Maybe you need another cup of coffee...

I've been supportive of everything the union has done...I'll wait it out but I can still voice my opinions...

If you don't agree with what I said fine by me I won't miss any sleep over what you think of me..But don't go reading more into it and interpeting it how it fits you best..

It's easy to knock those when your not in their shoes...
I know, I know live and learn......

 

[Thermaldog]

Hagen,

Sad fact-there is a line of people waiting to replace you when/if you get sick of it. Go be an investment banker and...

Qwityerbitchin

Dog

 

[Nova]

You really need to stop putting words in my mouth..Did I ever say anything about feeling lucky I wasn't put on the street...Nope

Ok, so your one of the few felt no relief to be not put on the street. I guess you were hoping the company would squeeze out a few more so your number would be called.

Did Mr.Hat ever quote anything I said? I think not...

I apologize for that error. In my morning haze I put that quote to your name.

But your followup sediment was exactly what Mr Hat's post addressed.

Mr.Hat with all due respect I have no prob shutting this mother down..

Tons of bravado considering you (or any of us here) have been tested. Until that day comes, you're all talk.

 

[wannab0133]

hagan,

early 2001 newhire at expressjet? whew, that is bad. it seems to me that you have a case of bad timing. am i wrong, or it almost seems that the first batch of newhires should be in much better shoes than you have been in seeing nothing catastrophic happens again. i mean, they "should" be better off than you with respect to sitting reserve and upgrading. my point is the fact that you incredibly unlucky is not your fault, nor is it the companies fault. timing is everything and maybe now is a good time to be a newhire, maybe not. time will tell, but the cycle seems to be trending upwards and if one gets trained in march then they should have better experiences(qol) than you due to better timing. or, something else could happen and they would be sitting reserve for years and years. then, imo you'd see a mass exodus. people would be getting fed up.... my .02

 

[nonstop]

Ok, so your one of the few felt no relief to be not put on the street. I guess you were hoping the company would squeeze out a few more so your number would be called.

Oh cmon man, you really are totally out of touch. Being put on the street would have been a blessing for anyone near the bottom of our list for the last TWO AND A HALF YEARS. Too junoir for a COLA, before you throw that out there. Those poor bastards were held hostage and tossed from domicile to domicile every other bid. Great, 26k a year GROSS, 3k a year in commuting costs, to sit reserve with a 3am availability, 'bout 1200 a year in per diem. 200-300 SIC flight hours a year. Away from home 200 nights per year (most in a crash pad). Who in their right mind would be relieved about that scenario?

Lemme guess, you're a CA who has learned to live and support his family well off 60k a year. You've learned to live cheap and management has already done a great job of lowering your expectations! You probably have no plan whatsoever for retirement. God forbid your child would ever want to goto college... that'll cost **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** near 400k 18 years from now.

These are the people voting on our future... god help us all. XJT is the last chance to raise the bar. I'm not holding my breath.

Back to the books, working on my exit plan out of this career. Enjoy being a Wal*Mart greeter after you're done riding the RJ.

 

[Stearmandriver]

Please, tough words from an FO with no PIC time. Have resolve and stick to your guns with the contract negotiations but I am sick of the bravado. You'll be proud, when your sitting there as a CFI again. I will strike if I have to, I certianly hope it never comes to that. I am all about a fair contract but I am not looking to "shut this f----n place down!" Lets try and show some professionalism here eh? It is a public forum for cryin out loud.

EXCUSE me?? Listen dude (your name is Pete if I remember right from Calforums?), 3 things:

1. "Tough words from an FO with no PIC time" - I spent 2 years as a captain. I'm an FO now by choice, because, hey, call me crazy, but I guess I got a little spoiled seeing my home and my family more than the 2 days a week I was seeing them on reserve. I'm just hanging in the right seat for a few more months now... I figure by our next bid there'll be enough people trained junior to me that I can hold a line. Makes all the difference in the world when you commute.

2. "... sick of the bravado..." It's not bravado. "Bravado" suggests that I'm bluffing, spouting off tough talk without really considering the reality of my suggestions. Nothing could be further from the truth. I wouldn't mind being a CFI again at all... I made more my last few years doing that then I am as a 5th (almost 6th) year fo, and big fans and video games are not really my idea of a real airplane. I only thought (mistakenly it seems) that they might pay the bills a little better. I have not completely given up hope yet that my flying career might progress, but if I don't see some promising signs in the next year or so... outta here I go. Flying isn't my only skill.

3. You are not the first captain to suggest that I'm out of line for expecting that I should be able to support a family as the first officer of a 50 pax, 55,000lb jet. I don't expect to support them lavishly, opulently, or decadently... but I see no reason why "comfortably" should be out of the question. If our first officers, men and women who posess levels of education and specialized training that few other professions can match, cannot support their families at the same level as a TSA screener (1st yr $36000), NYC bus driver (4th yr. $58,000), construction laborer (my buddy, 5th yr. $80,000 w/ overtime) etc, then, far as I'm concerned, the company doesn't deserve to still be in business. I have defended this position vehemently, in person, in crew room discussions, so I'm certainly not going to waffle here on an anonymous forum.

Additionally, you can save your attacks of my professionalism until we've flown together. Public internet message boards are freedom of speech in it's purest form, and it's just silliness to think that my published opinions are in any way going to affect the outcome of our contract. You are entitled to your opinions, and your right to voice them, same as I am. We don't have to agree with each other, but we certainly shouldn't be arguing over our respective rights of free speech and debate.

I apologize if any of this post offends you. Honestly I don't mean to do that at all. I'm just responding to the somewhat derisive tone in your response. If we ever DO end up flying together at work, first beer's on me.

Joe

 

[BobbyB]

If I am not mistaken, there IS a solution to your problem:
Quit! Nobody is stopping you, and a bunch of guys on this forum are waiting in line to take your $20something K/year job. The payscale is not a big company secret, and your are not contracted to stay. Put your very little money where your mouth is and show the company that they don't pay their professionals enough. Market forces and the job market, I think, will prove that they pay plenty due to the 3000 whatever applications they have to jump into the right seat.
It does suck to be poor, but if you think your training and initiative can make more money, or you will be more satisfied doing something else, then go for it.

 

[d.fitz]

Tabexpress F/O:

Boy, you were instigating on another post just the other day.

Go play somewhere else.... no ones cares.

 

[CrewDawg]

If I am not mistaken, there IS a solution to your problem:
Quit! Nobody is stopping you, and a bunch of guys on this forum are waiting in line to take your $20something K/year job.

Call me crazy but isn't that one of the reasons that the pay scale's are so low right now. I guess its a fact of life, there is always someone willing to work for less.

 

[Stearmandriver]

BobbyB: " Nobody is stopping you, and a bunch of guys on this forum are waiting in line to take your $20something K/year job."

TabExpress: "And please don't flame me for being a PFTer, i've heard all the arguments and for me this is the best route to take, it's just that i'd love to get on with XJet in the future and would love to walk into a great contract with livable wages and work rules in case i get stuck at XJet and can't get on with a major."

LOL... two posts attempting to refute my position, and all you both do is seal it up. Bobby, your statement quoted above is maybe the very best explanation I've seen yet for what's wrong with the airline industry. You distilled it into one sentence. Nice job.

TabExpress, this is greed at its most astounding - in the same sentence, you defend yourself for buying a job, and then charge US with securing a contract YOU'D be happy to come work under.

Let me ask you both a question: if companies continue to see that, not only are pilots willing to work for wages that would insult a comparably trained professional in any other field, but they're actually willing to PAY FOR these positions, what do you suppose the chances are of any of us getting a livable contract? Boys, the days of "paying your dues" at a regional for 2 years, then progressing to a major, are gone. For an awful lot of you, the RJ operators WILL BE your airline career.

Those of us at Xjet ARE standing up for ourselves, and I believe we WILL secure a very good contract. Ya know, one that guarantees that no pilot on our payroll is eligible for food stamps (under our current contract, some are). I won't speak for anyone else here, but I for one will vote "no" until either they pay me a wage similiar to that earned by other professionals with a 4 year degree, 3-4 years of specialty training, and another several years of building experience before even becoming eligible for their current job... or the doors close. There is no middle ground for me. 30k/yr? I can go make that anywhere. Flying airplanes or NOT. Believe it or not, there is life outside of aviation.

If the good 'ol boys from 20 or 30 years ago, ya know, the ones who stood up for themselves and made this a real career? could see us now, they'd be sick. Fighting over the "privilege" of flying a jet for 20k. Jesus.

Joe