Where would a UAL/CAL merger leave the pilots?

[SRJ]

Where would a UAL/CAL merger leave each pilot group? Would there be a furlough on either side? What kind of integration would the pilot group be looking at regarding historic merging of two ALPA carriers?

 

[IAHERJ]

It won't be pretty but I'd venture to guess that most people who wanted to remain employed at the combined carrier would have jobs. Not sure about those deep on furlough at UA. The whole "career expectations at the time of the merger" part of ALPA's merger policy might screw those guys. Good news is that by the time the whole seniority list would be settled there would probably be a need for 1,000 pilots given both seniority lists retirement #'s. But what do I know; I'm just guessing and doing so optimistically.

IAHERJ

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Total domestic fleet much smaller. Hubs close. Aircraft not needed. History.

 

[TWA Dude]

I gotta agree with hotel. The only people who benefit from airline mergers are the executives and maybe the stockholders. Employees suffer.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Sh#t Creek, looking for paddles.

 

[Jetjockey]

Sh#t Creek, looking for paddles.

I run a small dock on that river. I rent paddles. Hopefully business will remain slow.

I beg to differ with the assumed reduction of a combined airline. USAirways so far hasn't furloughed anyone. I think with the amount of retirements at both UAL, and CAL, and the snail's pace that the abritration takes, furloughs would not be required.

Still hoping everyone remains in thier own beds.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

I run a small dock on that river. I rent paddles. Hopefully business will remain slow.

I beg to differ with the assumed reduction of a combined airline. USAirways so far hasn't furloughed anyone. I think with the amount of retirements at both UAL, and CAL, and the snail's pace that the abritration takes, furloughs would not be required.

Still hoping everyone remains in thier own beds.

USAIR had already done its shedding by the time AMWEST got a hold of them.

 

[fatboyplt]

For what it is worth I tend to agree with Jetjock. Cal is hiring big. Ual can not crew what we need. We are calling back as everyone knows and that is good. Ratios, fences and a whole host of options exist as long as people are realistic during this type of SPECULATION. Cal has I believe a younger fleet and growing, great route structure, seemingly good employee morale. Ours, Ual fleet is good and decent but certainly in need of updating. Both firms have big and small aircraft alike that could make a formidable enterprise. Ual's route structure is outstanding as well. However our employee morale is beaten up, as we all know but IMHO still nevertheless hopeful.. Personally I like the idea of the two more so than some other combos, but again as everyone knows on this forum we are not making those types of strategic decisions.

Birdman
BTV

 

[Lazy8]

If they merge and decide to furlough they should start with the guys who decided they didn't need representation back in the 80's.

...

 

[coogebeachhotel]

You mean the (o is this PC) scabies

 

[fatboyplt]

Both companies have them....

Birdman
BTV

 

[fatboyplt]

Disregard my obvious statement please....

Birdman
BTV

 

[Dumb Pilot]

If they merge and decide to furlough they should start with the guys who decided they didn't need representation back in the 80's.

...

I guess you didn't read the latest ALPA magazine, although they did mentioned that some pilots did go to work during the strike. They went to great lengths on the article not to call them SCABS.uke:

They are all a big happy family now. Water under the bridge as long as ALPA is collecting their 2%

 

[Jonny Sacko]

For what it is worth I tend to agree with Jetjock. Cal is hiring big. Ual can not crew what we need. We are calling back as everyone knows and that is good. Ratios, fences and a whole host of options exist as long as people are realistic during this type of SPECULATION. Cal has I believe a younger fleet and growing, great route structure, seemingly good employee morale. Ours, Ual fleet is good and decent but certainly in need of updating. Both firms have big and small aircraft alike that could make a formidable enterprise. Ual's route structure is outstanding as well. However our employee morale is beaten up, as we all know but IMHO still nevertheless hopeful.. Personally I like the idea of the two more so than some other combos, but again as everyone knows on this forum we are not making those types of strategic decisions.

Birdman
BTV

How do you feel about DOH or % in Seat??

 

[coogebeachhotel]

How do you feel about DOH or % in Seat??

For UAL DOH would be great. For CAL % in seat would be great. No way the career expectations clause is going to be fully implemented. Come on 8 yr UAL guy swinging gear for 3 year CAL guy. Who has the strongest MEC wins.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

For some of us at CAL DOH would be good especially as a 87 hire. Nevertheless DOH will never happen. As far as your comment about strongest MEC's that has minimal impact. The biggest impact is which merger team (merger committee along with legal counsel) does a better job convincing the arbitrator in their respective theorys. That's it binding arbitration with no appeals process it's all in the hands of a arbitrator. If that arbitrator is on crack where all screwed.

 

[fatboyplt]

Kellner says he wants to remain independent though. So is this discussion just academic?

Birdman
BTV

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Beyond his control. BOD calls the shots.

 

[Kugelblitz]

I am sure this has already been beat to death by some of my other former TWA colleagues; nonetheless; we at CAL will get utterly screwed by the United Airlines run ALPA National if we merge with them.

We are in a nihilistically driven enterprise-commercial airline pilots. There are no shortage of well groomed,handsome, aritculate, all American boys who can shamelessly look you in the face and tell why their personal greed is the right,and just outcome of a situation like a merger. (reference John Darrah,APA president during the TWA -merger- )

Alpa merger -policy- will be interpreted at the UAL pilots advantage at every turn resulting in ...... well, look at TWA. The 2 different union issue with that merger is not as significant as one would like to believe.

United only wants us because they, like Delta, have no clue how to survive and are running out subsidiaries to suck financial blood out of and are looking for fresh meat.

 

[Fly4hire]

Beyond his control. BOD calls the shots.

Actually NWA calls the shots on anyone merging with CAL.

UAL might also be sold or pieced out al'a PAA. The orginal press release included the following statement that has since been buried/dropped:

Goldman is expected to help United assess the value of its domestic and international holdings, advise it on sales or purchases of domestic or international routes and scout for mergers, according to Crain's, citing unidentified people close to United

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Probably all of the above is what will happen.

 

[jetexas]

Look at how the Business Express and Eagle merge went. Both ALPA carriers. Eagle bought Bizex and merged them in DOH as well as giving them flowthrough, much to the detriment of Eagle pilots. I agree..strongest MEC wins. To the victor does not necessarily go the spoils.

 

[bearcat]

This will get interesting....Tilted Tilton has said basically that a merger needs to happen. LK at CAL has said we don't want to merge but we are not going to pitch out of the fight. So lets see.......SOMEONE wants to merge with UA, then CAL has to merge with someone. Maybe LK will lead turn UA and the merger will happen. Who knows. Remeber guys....drive bus...collect check. I'm not worried about it and I don't care until something happens.

 

[twad]

No imminent signs yet

IMHO, I have been though mergers and have watched many occour as we all have. I have not seen one of the major signs that usually signals a merger is ripe. HIRING. Generally, both companies suspend all hiring when a merger is imminent. Just my observation.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

IMHO, I have been though mergers and have watched many occour as we all have. I have not seen one of the major signs that usually signals a merger is ripe. HIRING. Generally, both companies suspend all hiring when a merger is imminent. Just my observation.

CAL has to hire. They are at critical staffing levels.

 

[twad]

True but not if a merger is in the works

If you look at other mergers inside and outside of aviation this seems to hold true. If Cal does merge they will halt hiring until an annoucement is made.

 

[twad]

AW and Usairways is a good example. Aw curiously halted hiring about 3 months prior to the merger anouncement. They were at staffing levels that also were similiar to those at Cal.

 

[Tomct]

:bawling:Man, I HOPE a merger does NOT happen! I have a lot of friends over there that could "Possibly" be in jeopardy!!! Don't Do IT CAL....Just Turn and RUN AWAY!!!!

 

[EMBpilot]

twad,

What happends to the stock of both airlines in case of merger?

Thanks

 

[pkober]

The airline that does the buying wins. Period. If UAL buys us, we get screwed. If we buy them, they get screwed. Anyone who thinks that any shred of ALPA union brotherhood would exist during this, or any, merger is smoking some serious crack.

Anyone who scabbed should be stabled as a starter. Then we can talk from there.

Let's hope this whole deal never happens.