Where is the ASA strike vote?

[ASADriver]

I didn't realize that ASA/SKYW was in danger of going under. Did I miss a financial report somewhere?

What happens if we lose our contract with Delta? I doubt we would last long ala ACA. We only make money if Delta pays us.

 

[Bizjet]

What happens if we lose our contract with Delta? I doubt we would last long ala ACA. We only make money if Delta pays us.

Go bake some cookies. Have a few of the neighborhood ladies over for wine and whine. Give your husband sex when he comes home and tomorrow eveything will be fine. Just don't tell him you have been posting doom and gloom on Flight Forums while he was out.

 

[ASADriver]

Go bake some cookies. Have a few of the neighborhood ladies over for wine and whine. Give your husband sex when he comes home and tomorrow eveything will be fine. Just don't tell him you have been posting doom and gloom on Flight Forums while he was out.

Why can't any of you hardcore types ever debate without acting like children. Makes me even more sceptical of ALPA. Your quite the ALPA spokesman Biz.

 

[D'Angelo]

Exactly ALPO is truly a bunch of children. They stomp and whine everytime things don't go their way.

 

[Lear70]

For what's "SUPPOSED" to be the most profitable regional in the biz, to not get AT LEAST a COLA raise plus COLA and longevity for the duration of the new contract plus scope provisions to protect your jobs, AT THE LEAST, is just plain sad.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. What the majors are doing has NO affect, that's zero, zilch, nada, on what ANY regional is doing on a contract. COLA raises won't affect your ability to keep your contract. Labor rates are such a SMALL percentage of the overall cost; you guys preaching doom and gloom need to educate yourself.

Incidentally, unless you actually SIT on the National Mediation Board (which you don't), how do YOU know the NMB won't release you? Like someone said, the strike vote is a TOOL, sends a great signal when it has a near-100% participation factor in favor of a strike, and speeds things up greatly later in the game.

Just because the majors (which are losing money) took concessions (which they shouldn't have by and large) and which, incidentally, will be posting profits by this time next year (that have NOTHING to do with the labor costs and everything to do with yields), doesn't mean a profitable regional has to take cuts as well...

Jeez man, this is business basics 101.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Well said Fins. Folks, ALPA is playing a very dangerous game against an opponent that is holding all of the cards. A strike vote is irrlevent at this point. With the our current proposal, we will never be released which means no strike. Over the next several years, ASA will best case become stagnate, however more likely will shrink. Some of the loudest chest thumpers in ALPA will complain even more loudly as we shrink and are replaced by SKYW, CHQ, and Mesa.

It is time to retreat, reorganize, and move forward as a single growing SKYW company. Jerry is not bluffing, ALPA is. If ALPA doesn't reconsider it's postion, things will continue to get worse, not better.

It funny. Now that "Joe" realizes the strike vote will pass by a wide margin (regardless of the fact that he has been campaigning against it for months), all of a sudden it's "irrelevant". This is typical "Joe"... it's a big deal until he loses, then all of a sudden it was an "irrelevant" issue. More from Joe "Nyah Nyah, I'm taking my ball and going home" Merchant.

 

[John Pennekamp]

To all those that run to a strike vote stop and think for a minute. What are you striking for. Better QOL, section 13 was TA’d which was a huge sticking point. More money, like it or not we are the second highest paid CR7 drivers in the industry behind Horizon. (http://www.airlinepilotcentral.info/airlines/major-national-lcc.html) We cannot remain competitive within DCI like that. The company proposed cuts that would put us slightly below DCI which would need to be adjusted to at least match standard. ALPA has proposed wages that would put us out of the CR7/9 market.

Instead of focusing on issues we like scope, merger protection and duty rigs they focus on retirement and pay credit sheets. These things are nice but not necessary at this time. Gentlemen, read between the lines on both sides and decide for yourself. Don’t believe everything ALPA says is law and don’t believe everything the company says is a lie.

Do you management shrills honestly believe the strike vote won't pass? It is a 100% certainty that we will get at least 50%+1, so what exactly are y'all campaigning for? Do you think you will change the minds of that many pissed off pilots? Good luck.

 

[Tomct]

:beer:Hey John, don't worry! We will pass the strike vote by more than 97-98%! It is going to be AWESOME!!!

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Tommy, I know the strike vote will pass, the only question is with what percentage. What is disappointing is that too many pilots don't have any information about what is going on at all and are voting yes simply because I'm ALPA and they say vote yes. That is the reason for these chats, to make people open there eyes to both sides and make an informed decision.

 

[Tomct]

ATL, then you must not be reading your email. I get an email from the union on what's happening, what has happened etc. I talk to the P2P guys anytime I find one. ALPA is getting the word out and keeping everyone informed that reads their email. All they have to do is talk to their reps, they have been all over the place. I don't see how you think NO ONE knows what is going on. ALPA is doing just about everything they can except come into YOUR livingroom and answer questions. YGTBSM if you think our pilots don't know anything!

 

[Redan]

For what's "SUPPOSED" to be the most profitable regional in the biz, to not get AT LEAST a COLA raise plus COLA and longevity for the duration of the new contract plus scope provisions to protect your jobs, AT THE LEAST, is just plain sad.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. What the majors are doing has NO affect, that's zero, zilch, nada, on what ANY regional is doing on a contract. COLA raises won't affect your ability to keep your contract. Labor rates are such a SMALL percentage of the overall cost; you guys preaching doom and gloom need to educate yourself.

Incidentally, unless you actually SIT on the National Mediation Board (which you don't), how do YOU know the NMB won't release you? Like someone said, the strike vote is a TOOL, sends a great signal when it has a near-100% participation factor in favor of a strike, and speeds things up greatly later in the game.

Just because the majors (which are losing money) took concessions (which they shouldn't have by and large) and which, incidentally, will be posting profits by this time next year (that have NOTHING to do with the labor costs and everything to do with yields), doesn't mean a profitable regional has to take cuts as well...

Jeez man, this is business basics 101.

I hope all of us pay close attention to this post by Lear 70. First of all he doesn't have a dog in this fight but has taken the time to share his insight for us.

Secondly, and this is critical: the point on labor rates. Everyone is so hung up on this, while it truly is such a small percentage of costs. Example: what is the cost to operate an RJ for an hour? I've heard everything up to around $3500.00. Let's say it's $2500.00 for the sake of argument. A typical ASA flight crew would probably make about $120.00 for this hour...if they are somewhat senior. With a new contract (for a hypothetical example) we see the Captain receive a raise of $4.00 and the FO $2.50, for a grand total of now $126.50. Now our cost went from $2500.00 to $2506.50. You math majors can figure out the percentage difference. How long would it take to burn $6.50 worth of fuel waiting for parking in ATL? How many multiples of $6.50 were expended on the Ford and Harrison Anti-labor law firm? How much does it cost us to be so frequently late because of inadequate ground support equipment? What are the costs of settling the numerous FMLA law suits ASA is facing because they are too tight to administer it properly? And I could go on. Why do rates tend to be such a focus of management? Because it is an easy target, in a large measure because we pilots allow it to be. A focus on pilot pay rate/contract issues allows attention to be diverted away from other crucial issues on which management should have focus.

While the cost of living keeps going up, this pilot group hasn't had a raise in years. What a great deal for the company. Almost equates to concessions. Mr. Adkin procured ASA for fire sale prices, much less than what Delta paid. And despite what some would have you believe, our costs are not out of line by a long shot, very low it could be argued. This amounts to a killer deal for Mr. Adkin and SKWY. This doesn't make me feel very concessionary.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

I never said that none of our guys are informed, what I said was that too many aren't and are simply voting loyalty than fact. The information that is distributed needs to be complete and balanced to make an informed decision. If all the info you get is from ALPA without getting the companies perspective on it how can you make an informed decision? If, through this forum even one line guy can get more information from both sides then I will be happy.

Read it - assess it and vote what you think needs to happen

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Yes, we all know a strike at ASA is going to fix everything...


pppppffftttt.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hey JB, it will affect us, but it has to stop somewhere. How low do you want to go? There's a basic salary that I'm willing to fly for, and we're right about there. I would like a COLA increase, but if I don't get it, I'll survive. But, No cuts for me. Status quo on rates or a small increase, that's what I'll be looking for. You have always said that the majors and us should be paid the same, or implied that. So, we're about there. The majors have come way down, not quite to us, so there you are.

I don't "want it" to go lower. However, there is far more involved than what I or you "want". Yes I have said in the past that the divide between major and regional was too much. However, unfortunately that divide has been closed because mainline pay has gone down over 60% on an inflation adjusted basis. Mainline 70-78 seat rates have gone down below our current 70 seat rates and that is going to affect us whether we like it or not.

But, there has to be a limit to what we'll fly for. If those at Mesa and the others want to fly for pathetic wages, that's their business. Doesn't mean we have to, and we won't JB. C'mon now, would you take a 25% pay cut? And, you know that Tutt letter is an old management tactic that's old as hell.
Hoser

The company isn't asking for a 25% pay cut Mark. You are trying to scare people and are not being accurate. The current offer on the table is a pay raise for both you and I. Far from a "25% paycut". Let's try and be accurate with the information.

 

[CRJ Skillz]

IM VOTING NO TO STRIKE!

Live to fight another day ladies

 

[AV8700]

IM VOTING NO TO STRIKE!

Live to fight another day ladies

Thats your choice.

I'm voting yes, I'll fight today.

 

[shamrock]

IM VOTING NO TO STRIKE!

Live to fight another day ladies

Lucky for us you don't work ASA.

Don't worry about a reply because I won't see it. I only saw this post because AV8700 quoted it.

 

[atrdriver]

I never said that none of our guys are informed, what I said was that too many aren't and are simply voting loyalty than fact. The information that is distributed needs to be complete and balanced to make an informed decision. If all the info you get is from ALPA without getting the companies perspective on it how can you make an informed decision? If, through this forum even one line guy can get more information from both sides then I will be happy.

Read it - assess it and vote what you think needs to happen

Anyone who is not informed, of BOTh sides, who owns a computer, is just not trying very hard. The companies website and letters on FLICA, plus asacontract.com present the companies side, and the ALPA site and their e-mails present the unions side. Pilots are grown ups, and should not need to be spoon fed information. It's just too easy to get information in this case to not be informed. I would say that most of the pilots that plan to vote yes are not doing so because of any group mentality, they are truely pissed off about what is going on.

 

[atrdriver]

The company isn't asking for a 25% pay cut Mark. You are trying to scare people and are not being accurate. The current offer on the table is a pay raise for both you and I. Far from a "25% paycut". Let's try and be accurate with the information.

No, Joe, they are not 25% cuts. But to say that the current proposal is a pay increase for you or I is just not telling the truth. The loss of premium pay will drop my pay by about 18%. A 2.6% increase the first year, followed by nothing for the life of the contract does not equate to a pay increase.

 

[HoserASA]

The company isn't asking for a 25% pay cut Mark. You are trying to scare people and are not being accurate. The current offer on the table is a pay raise for both you and I. Far from a "25% paycut". Let's try and be accurate with the information.

Well John, that was just a figure I was using as an example, and you know that too. You're just doing more of your spin work. But, I haven't had a raise in 2 years as I'm top out at 15 yr pay.

IF, and it won't happen, the company gets to reduce DH, no premium, no cancellation pay, and other cuts, then it may end up being more than 25% anyway. Your idea of a pay raise would be negated by the cuts that the company wants. Spin on John!

Hoser

 

[~~~^~~~]

Just on the ESPP I just got at at least a 2.25% raise.

((Your Earnings * 15%) *15%)

Plus when you sell it is a Capital Gain which is taxed at a lower rate and hopefully the stock will go up some. Stock Purchase Plans are usually a good deal, just don't stay in the stock forever if you see the Company tanking. There were a few guys at Comair who got DL stock and watched it go from $1,000,000 to zero.

Besides, if we don't have a contract next year we can go raise sand at the Shareholder's meeting.

In other related news, Brian just got $887,400 in stock in grants.

 

[601Pilot]

Just on the ESPP I just got at at least a 2.25% raise.

((Your Earnings * 15%) *15%)

Plus when you sell it is a Capital Gain which is taxed at a lower rate and hopefully the stock will go up some. Stock Purchase Plans are usually a good deal, just don't stay in the stock forever if you see the Company tanking. There were a few guys at Comair who got DL stock and watched it go from $1,000,000 to zero.

Besides, if we don't have a contract next year we can go raise sand at the Shareholder's meeting.

In other related news, Brian just got $887,400 in stock in grants.

That would have required me to buy into this POS stock; no thanks!

 

[Bizjet]

That would have required me to buy into this POS stock; no thanks!

I bet he called Skippy and said you really lost a great paying job. What if I could have carried us to number #15 and kept us there for 6 months--maybe I would have gotten over a million.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

IM VOTING NO TO STRIKE!

Live to fight another day ladies

Live to fight another day? You got to be baggin' me. Fighting another day was 4 years ago. This IS another day!

Put me down for a big fat YES on the strike vote!

 

[Tomct]

Rich, don't sweat what skillz has to say. He is just another guy who is HAPPY to take it in the rear! Unlike the rest of us, he enjoys that position!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well John, that was just a figure I was using as an example, and you know that too. You're just doing more of your spin work. But, I haven't had a raise in 2 years as I'm top out at 15 yr pay.

IF, and it won't happen, the company gets to reduce DH, no premium, no cancellation pay, and other cuts, then it may end up being more than 25% anyway. Your idea of a pay raise would be negated by the cuts that the company wants. Spin on John!

Hoser

Talk about spin Mark. Your the one using outrageous figures, ie 25%, to scare people and "rally the troops". The company has already agreed to 100% DH, another "lie". Premium would be replaced with "block or better", which would only cause people under guarantee to lose money. If your over guarantee, it won't make any difference. Cancellation isn't going away. It may not survive "on a leg by leg basis" because the industry standard doesn't support it, but it won't disappear. Hourly rates on the 50 seater would go up for you. Hardly even close to your "25% paycut". Talk about spin, the ALPA spin cycle is on high now.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Talk about spin Mark. Your the one using outrageous figures, ie 25%, to scare people and "rally the troops". The company has already agreed to 100% DH, another "lie". Premium would be replaced with "block or better", which would only cause people under guarantee to lose money. If your over guarantee, it won't make any difference. Cancellation isn't going away. It may not survive "on a leg by leg basis" because the industry standard doesn't support it, but it won't disappear. Hourly rates on the 50 seater would go up for you. Hardly even close to your "25% paycut". Talk about spin, the ALPA spin cycle is on high now.

So you say only those under block get a pay cut? How long do you think your ATR line will be above block as ATRs are retired and the flying is taken by Freedom? Sounds like a pay cut for you, John. Set your hatred for ALPA aside...it's clouding your judgement. Bob's gone, you can come back now.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So you say only those under block get a pay cut? How long do you think your ATR line will be above block as ATRs are retired and the flying is taken by Freedom? Sounds like a pay cut for you, John. Set your hatred for ALPA aside...it's clouding your judgement. Bob's gone, you can come back now.

1. Management won't purposely build lines below guarantee. That would require more crews which would increase costs. That wouldn't save them any money.

2. I don't "hate" ALPA. I think ALPA is ineffective. There is a big difference.

3. This wasn't about Bob. It isn't personal for me despite what some may say. There are others who think emotion, rather than sound judgement, is running the ALPA agenda.

4. I will come back if I am invited back.

 

[14RF SUX]

4. I will come back if I am invited back.

Umm, you work for me. Would you please go back and do your job? If not, please resign and let someone else do it. You don't need an invite to fullfill the duties you were elected to do.

 

[atrdriver]

1. Management won't purposely build lines below guarantee. That would require more crews which would increase costs. That wouldn't save them any money.

They did for 2 years, and I have the old bid packets to prove it. And I don't know about you, but I used to average 16 hours of premium when I was on the ATR. That was on lines blocked to 80 hours. Block or better would just have taken me up to 80 hours. Premium took that 80 hour line and made it pay 91 hours, because premium was over guarantee. That's an extra 10 hours of pay a month. Tell me how that is NOT a paycut Joe?