Where is the ASA strike vote?

[boknowsASA]

I've been out on vac when I left everyone was saying strike vote next week including ALPA. Well it's the end of the week and I haven't heard a thing. So what's up?

I haven't heard anything from out MEC, why are we so in the dark lets have a "townhall type" meeting talk it over what we want and what we can live without. I see alot of guys that want different things and I know we do the polling, but I think we need to make it very clear to them (ALPA) what it is we want.... maybe I'm wrong and they do know but reading these boards everyone wants something different.

 

[79%N1]

Heard from MEC types they go out on the 15th

 

[~~~^~~~]

It will take approximately 2 weeks for the votes to come back, then the results have to be certified by ALPA National. Expect a couple of months.

In the mean time, ideas, if not proposals, will go back and forth. I asked the VP of FLight Ops and he said "negotiations are never over."

But once again, ASA pilots are not negotiating with the people who have operational control of our airline. The #1 reason we are headed for a strike is because we are negotiating with the wrong set of management. We can not get an agreement if the agreement does not bind Skywest, period.

 

[sweptback]

It will take approximately 2 weeks for the votes to come back, then the results have to be certified by ALPA National. Expect a couple of months.

I was told by a P2P that we would know the results by the second week in July. FWIW.

 

[Papa Woody]

The #1 reason we are headed for a strike is because we are negotiating with the wrong set of management. We can not get an agreement if the agreement does not bind Skywest, period.

That is EXACTLY the point. Well-said. I hope every pilot understands this.

 

[ASARJMan]

I've been out on vac when I left everyone was saying strike vote next week including ALPA. Well it's the end of the week and I haven't heard a thing..

You should have received an email Connection addressing the strike issues with the time table for the strike vote. The strike vote is coming. If you didn't get your email Connection, you need to update your info to ALPA. You can also find the Connection at the ASA ALPA web site.

 

[AMANSWORLD]

I have a question - if a strike vote is authorized and passed how long would this process take until walkout?

 

[Sinca3]

10th of July is when ALPA national counts and records the votes, so we should know something by then....

 

[CRJ Skillz]

That is EXACTLY the point. Well-said. I hope every pilot understands this.

Jesus Christmas people! Mang. has nothing to do with our current problem! It's selfish pilots like yall who are bringing our airline down!:angryfire

Have a little faith in our boss!

 

[~~~^~~~]

I have a question - if a strike vote is authorized and passed how long would this process take until walkout?

Probably never based on the current proposals. We have to be released by the NMB to walk out and the NMB will not release us if our demands are out of line with market rates.

The more likely scenario is that by the time we are released, Skywest has transferred so much of our flying that it will not matter. Jerry will have his airline with no union and no contract and he will be able to laugh and say "ALPA was to blame."

The crazy thing is - he's right.

This works for ALPA too. No more pesky ASA pilots wanting to be treated like "real" airplane pilots and a well orchestrated race for the bottom that results in better mainline profitability wich ALPA will try to re gain for their "preferred" pilots in the next round of contract negotiations.

This works for everybody but the pilots at ALPA represented "Express" carriers. We will pay the ultimate price for ALPA's failed scope strategy.

I do not know if there is a way out of this. Our CNC has got in a box where they will have hell to pay to our pilots for turning down Comair +1, then a contract extension at current rates, and are now fighting a losing battle against pay cuts. It is not their fault. ALPA has allowed alter ego airlines to undercut us and the whipsaw that Dave Newenhuis warned us about in 1999 is now coming true.

There may not be a way out of this unless our CNC puts a new contract proposal on the table - "merger."

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well said Fins. Folks, ALPA is playing a very dangerous game against an opponent that is holding all of the cards. A strike vote is irrlevent at this point. With the our current proposal, we will never be released which means no strike. Over the next several years, ASA will best case become stagnate, however more likely will shrink. Some of the loudest chest thumpers in ALPA will complain even more loudly as we shrink and are replaced by SKYW, CHQ, and Mesa.

It is time to retreat, reorganize, and move forward as a single growing SKYW company. Jerry is not bluffing, ALPA is. If ALPA doesn't reconsider it's postion, things will continue to get worse, not better.

 

[Bizjet]

Well said Fins. Folks, ALPA is playing a very dangerous game against an opponent that is holding all of the cards. A strike vote is irrlevent at this point. With the our current proposal, we will never be released which means no strike. Over the next several years, ASA will best case become stagnate, however more likely will shrink. Some of the loudest chest thumpers in ALPA will complain even more loudly as we shrink and are replaced by SKYW, CHQ, and Mesa.

It is time to retreat, reorganize, and move forward as a single growing SKYW company. Jerry is not bluffing, ALPA is. If ALPA doesn't reconsider it's postion, things will continue to get worse, not better.

Trying to put myself in your shoes there Joe.

I'm thinking.

Help! Help! The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling! I can't go on strike! Don't make me choose sides. I can't lose all my real estate holdings! Wait a minute! I can strike and have my older girl friend continue to work. She can say that ALPA forced her to cross the line. It worked before and it can work again. NEVER MIND. SORRY. The SKY is not falling! The Sky is not falling! Don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Trying to put myself in your shoes there Joe.

I'm thinking.

Help! Help! The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling! I can't go on strike! Don't make me choose sides. I can't lose all my real estate holdings! Wait a minute! I can strike and have my older girl friend continue to work. She can say that ALPA forced her to cross the line. It worked before and it can work again. NEVER MIND. SORRY. The SKY is not falling! The Sky is not falling! Don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain!

Back with the personal attacks I see. There will not be a strike because you have to be released by the NMB. The NMB is not going to release us with our current table positions. Doesn't matter what the strike vote is, you can't strike when you are "parked", or I mean recessed.

 

[SuperKooter]

Well said Fins. Folks, ALPA is playing a very dangerous game against an opponent that is holding all of the cards. A strike vote is irrlevent at this point. With the our current proposal, we will never be released which means no strike. Over the next several years, ASA will best case become stagnate, however more likely will shrink. Some of the loudest chest thumpers in ALPA will complain even more loudly as we shrink and are replaced by SKYW, CHQ, and Mesa.

It is time to retreat, reorganize, and move forward as a single growing SKYW company. Jerry is not bluffing, ALPA is. If ALPA doesn't reconsider it's postion, things will continue to get worse, not better.

I agree. When there are 8 other regionals willing to do it for cheaper than we are being asked to, going on strike is murder/suicide.

 

[Bizjet]

Back with the personal attacks I see. There will not be a strike because you have to be released by the NMB. The NMB is not going to release us with our current table positions. Doesn't matter what the strike vote is, you can't strike when you are "parked", or I mean recessed.

There is nothing personal in that post. Many ASA pilots want to know why you are so frightened. You attack the MEC, LEC and anyone who is loyal to ALPA and expect that is fair game. Why can you be so frightened? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

To all those that run to a strike vote stop and think for a minute. What are you striking for. Better QOL, section 13 was TA’d which was a huge sticking point. More money, like it or not we are the second highest paid CR7 drivers in the industry behind Horizon. (http://www.airlinepilotcentral.info/airlines/major-national-lcc.html) We cannot remain competitive within DCI like that. The company proposed cuts that would put us slightly below DCI which would need to be adjusted to at least match standard. ALPA has proposed wages that would put us out of the CR7/9 market.

Instead of focusing on issues we like scope, merger protection and duty rigs they focus on retirement and pay credit sheets. These things are nice but not necessary at this time. Gentlemen, read between the lines on both sides and decide for yourself. Don’t believe everything ALPA says is law and don’t believe everything the company says is a lie.

 

[HoserASA]

ALPA has proposed wages that would put us out of the CR7/9 market. Don’t believe everything ALPA says is law and don’t believe everything the company says is a lie.

Yes, you're correct, proposed rates. The company did not counter those proposed rates, they stood on their opening rate. If ASA is the most profitable regional out there, one would think we'd have the highest rate for the 700, but not an unreasonable rate either. Just leader of the pack, or towards the top of the list. But the company won't counter, so here we are.

Sorry, been here 17 years and three contracts I think, maybe it's four. The company has lied on every one of them. What about the past 2-3 years where they violated and abused our current agreement? Have you ever looked at the tremendous number of open grievances? So, I have more faith and trust, plus respect, for my MEC and Negotiating Team.

Hoser

 

[PalmettoPilot]

Is it me or are there a lot of managment @#$%@#$%holes posting on here?

Drown on the kool-aid.

The strike vote is just a tool in the MEC toolbox to inidicate how serious we are about NOT TAKING CONCESSIONS. The MEC wouldn't pull it out if they didn't think it was going to work.

Of course the ALPA proposal was high. For some reason that's how negotiations work. APLA bids high, MGMT bids low, somewhere is the middle ground.

Bottom line is, the 70 Captains who can't afford to lose their jobs will agree to somewhat lower rates than ALPA is asking. The 50 guys don't care, they are either applying to other airlines or they can find a $35K/Yr job at any WalMart/BurgerKing/McDonalds.

Once the contract is signed, JA will send the aircraft wherever he wants anyway. SKYW guys had better be watching carefully, they call this a whipsaw for a reason and when it starts cutting the other way it's gonna really hurt.

 

[HoserASA]

Is it me or are there a lot of managment @#$%@#$%holes posting on here?

Yes there are, and they're using different screen names hoping that we'll think there's more of them. They think they can scare pilots with their ramblings. Won't work though.

Hoser

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Palmetto, I realize that in negotiations that one starts high and the other starts low but you have to admit that ALPAs opener was way over the top. Until they came down to 0% increase outside of profit sharing, for the CR7 cpts, don't expect much of a response from company. If you don't believe me do your own research and compare the wages of the other CR7 DCI drivers and then look at the company proposal on asacontract.com

 

[ASARJMan]

Palmetto, I realize that in negotiations that one starts high and the other starts low but you have to admit that ALPAs opener was way over the top. Until they came down to 0% increase outside of profit sharing, for the CR7 cpts, don't expect much of a response from company. If you don't believe me do your own research and compare the wages of the other CR7 DCI drivers and then look at the company proposal on asacontract.com

You don't know what you're talking about. This whole industry is trying to go back 20 years as far as wages and benefits, except for management salaries and bonuses. They are taking advantage of it so that they all (mgt) line their greedy pockets with bonuses. We're gonna stop it here. We go out of business, at least we'll have our dignity and self-respect.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You don't know what you're talking about. This whole industry is trying to go back 20 years as far as wages and benefits, except for management salaries and bonuses. They are taking advantage of it so that they all (mgt) line their greedy pockets with bonuses. We're gonna stop it here. We go out of business, at least we'll have our dignity and self-respect.

On an inflation adjusted basis, the mainline pay and workrules have already gone back by more than 20 years. To believe that isn't going to affect us is unrealistic.

 

[HoserASA]

On an inflation adjusted basis, the mainline pay and workrules have already gone back by more than 20 years. To believe that isn't going to affect us is unrealistic.

Hey JB, it will affect us, but it has to stop somewhere. How low do you want to go? There's a basic salary that I'm willing to fly for, and we're right about there. I would like a COLA increase, but if I don't get it, I'll survive. But, No cuts for me. Status quo on rates or a small increase, that's what I'll be looking for. You have always said that the majors and us should be paid the same, or implied that. So, we're about there. The majors have come way down, not quite to us, so there you are.

But, there has to be a limit to what we'll fly for. If those at Mesa and the others want to fly for pathetic wages, that's their business. Doesn't mean we have to, and we won't JB. C'mon now, would you take a 25% pay cut? And, you know that Tutt letter is an old management tactic that's old as hell.

Hoser

 

[blueridge71]

The more likely scenario is that by the time we are released, Skywest has transferred so much of our flying that it will not matter. ....

There may not be a way out of this unless our CNC puts a new contract proposal on the table - "merger."

I disagree that SW would be able to transfer enough of our flying to matter in the limited time before we would be released. People like you seem to think that George Bush is in the business of preventing strikes and I have not seen that to be true.

Besides, it takes three months to train one class of pilots. SW is hiring for their own airplanes right now. They don't have pilots to fly ours.

SW pilots may be nonunion, but I doubt that many of them would want to be tagged as scabs.

I do like the idea of a merger. It would result in some short term pain, but in the long run I think that it would be beneficial to both companies.

 

[blueridge71]

Is it me or are there a lot of managment @#$%@#$%holes posting on here?

Well, at least if they are playing on the internet, they can't be screwing things up at the GO or CPO.

 

[McNugget]

You don't know what you're talking about. This whole industry is trying to go back 20 years as far as wages and benefits, except for management salaries and bonuses. They are taking advantage of it so that they all (mgt) line their greedy pockets with bonuses. We're gonna stop it here. We go out of business, at least we'll have our dignity and self-respect.

I would agree, except that pilots probably had it a lot better 20 years ago than they do today. Minus Frank Lorenzo and the misery he caused.

 

[D'Angelo]

You don't know what you're talking about. This whole industry is trying to go back 20 years as far as wages and benefits, except for management salaries and bonuses. They are taking advantage of it so that they all (mgt) line their greedy pockets with bonuses. We're gonna stop it here. We go out of business, at least we'll have our dignity and self-respect.

"dignity and self-respect" doesn't pay the bills. Oh sure goto McDonalds or whatever you say. Sure theres a lot of dignity. Maybe you can be a greeter at walmart. Heres a hint neither one of those jobs pay more than your FO job at ASA sans first year perhaps. You have to work your way up all over again just to get into the management range. Most assistant/store managers don't clear 35-40k. You have to work your way up a long time. Oh well at least you will have some dignity right? You will have to go help some lady in a moo moo find the best deal on beer and cheezits. I guess at least you have your dignity though right? Yeah really dignified chanting instead of trying to save your job.

 

[D'Angelo]

Is it me or are there a lot of managment @#$%@#$%holes posting on here?

Drown on the kool-aid.

The strike vote is just a tool in the MEC toolbox to inidicate how serious we are about NOT TAKING CONCESSIONS. The MEC wouldn't pull it out if they didn't think it was going to work.

Of course the ALPA proposal was high. For some reason that's how negotiations work. APLA bids high, MGMT bids low, somewhere is the middle ground.

Bottom line is, the 70 Captains who can't afford to lose their jobs will agree to somewhat lower rates than ALPA is asking. The 50 guys don't care, they are either applying to other airlines or they can find a $35K/Yr job at any WalMart/BurgerKing/McDonalds.

Once the contract is signed, JA will send the aircraft wherever he wants anyway. SKYW guys had better be watching carefully, they call this a whipsaw for a reason and when it starts cutting the other way it's gonna really hurt.

So why is any pilot that disagrees with the union a "management A$$hole"? Why does everyone have to see things the exact way as the union? Reminds me of stalin. So what some people want to take a small cut and save the airline. If the strike vote isn't what you want it to be then TOO BAD. All you need is 50%+1. People don't have to drink the union Kool-aid either. Unions just hate when people think for themselves though.

 

[Tomct]

Strike Vote is coming!! Joe and ATL need to go hang out with D and Cooterpooter. (i.e. SELLOUTS)

 

[katanabob]

...So what some people want to take a small cut and save the airline...

I didn't realize that ASA/SKYW was in danger of going under. Did I miss a financial report somewhere?