where is Northwest as far as hiring now?

[titans10]

Did alpa approve of the ati's being held back and if so what did they get in return. Are they at first year pay?

 

[Desert1]

No flame intended but, should anyone be concerned over NWA’s move to create Compass, an in-house regional, with a flow through? Not that NWA isn’t famous for its cozy labor relations (insert hint of sarcasm here). Considering the upcoming retirement schedule of it’s sizeable DC-9 fleet, are they looking at replacing the feeder routes with ‘expensive’ mainline Airbus equipment or the ‘cheaper’ Embraer regional equipment staffed by ‘regional’ pilots? Knowing the sinister NWA management types, I would suspect they’ll choose opt 2.

If I were a Compass guy, I would be concerned that the 2 year promise of a seniority number and a flow-through could more likely result in a flow-back of former DC-9 FOs?
Step 1: Dangle the carrot by advertising the NWA seniority list to get the requisite talent needed to fill the upstart’s left seats and get the company safely off the ground.
Step 2: Start parking the -9s as you slowly replace them with the cheaper rates of a regional operation.

Considering the notion that ‘regional’ equipment has grown from small turbo-props to 50 seat jets to 120 seat jets (larger than some DC-9 series), this should be a concern. The regional jet is seen by many as a union buster. Hasn’t NWA stated their long term plan to be focused on long-haul international, where the real money is. The feed is what they look to get rid of.

Is this a valid concern or am I looking at this wrong?

D1

 

[Lear70]

Congrats, Jim!

Now don't turn the wrong way in holding or something...

 

[Occam's Razor]

Did alpa approve of the ati's being held back and if so what did they get in return. Are they at first year pay?

Huh?

Any line pilot can be taken off line at full pay. In this situation, NWA has hired a bunch of ATI's as line pilots, then taken them offline at full pay.

ALPA has an MOU with management regarding the effective seniority dates and longevity of the pilots in question.

 

[Fly4hire]

ATI's that have gone to the line have been held back in their Flight Ops positions until their replacements have been trained....All are drawing pay as pilots, and accruing longevity.

Yup, at probationary pay, almost a 50% pay cut for most...

1. There are no "bypass pilots". Everybody that was furloughed has long-ago passed the "fish or cut bait" point. There are a few LOA pilos trickling back as their Leaves expire...but there are NO pilots on recall bypass.

Wrong there sport. We had a 90 day a deferral, and deferral for a specific period of time, up to 4 years, aka "bypass". 90 day deferrals are all done. There are over 350 pilots on long term deferral that will be trickling back over the next few years.

We had 724 total furloughs - 350 went bypass, ~ 300 came back (100 plus to go on Mil Leave), the rest quit. So out of 724 we have ~200 fliers back on the line. Woooo-hoo.

2. ATI's go the DC-9. They do a year there. That was the deal when Jeff Carlson set up the program 7-years ago. That requirement can be waived by the VP of Flight Ops, but it's unlikely that any decision would be made on that until next Spring

Wrong again. There is no freeze on the initial acft and a new hire can bid onto another aircraft while on probation. Since many of the ATI's will be training their replacements and not start training until early next year, many will have a bid on the 320 before they ever have to train on the DC9.

I haven't heard that. The uniform shop was packed with Compass guys last week...so it doesn't appear like they're having a problem.

They are having big problems. You know who to call to find out.

 

[DashTrash400]

I haven't heard that. The uniform shop was packed with Compass guys last week...so it doesn't appear like they're having a problem. I think the rumor got started when the patterns came out, and mainline a/c are still flying to the Montana stations in November...instead of giving the flying Compass as we'd heard..

I dunno. There are a lot of people not showing up for interviews, not showing up for class, and then not showing up after the 30-day "do-it-yourself" basic indoc you get paid 400 bucks for the month for. I think that the potential for NWA flowback plus crappy payrates plus news of management's early actions plus NWA's general reputation is making people pretty gun-shy about Compass. The real test is going to be once they're hiring for beyond seniority number 180 or so, because upgrade for those pilots will be entirely based on attrition (barring further growth)...I think we're going to find themselves with a lot of brand new captains flying with brand new 250 hr puppy mill kiddies. Should be fun.

 

[DashTrash400]

Also, a lot of us hired thus far have Minneapolis roots and are looking to hold onto a MSP base. Might be harder to find people jonesing to go to Detroit or Memphis when those bases open.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I know Compass is calling and emailing people that originally applied because they might've been interested in a street captain slot, but then officially pulled the plug on their application months ago.

I also read on another thread that spots are going unfilled in indoc classes.

They have also changed some of the recruiting personnel. Why? I have no idea. Maybe you do.

I still haven't heard about the details on the 100 hour pay credit monthly cap.

cliff
YIP

 

[DashTrash400]

Heh...at this risk of hijacking this into a Compass thread...

I know 5 of 6 showed up for my class and the class before. I know several in my class did not resign their previous seniority prior to class so they could potentially not be coming back.

The only recruiting person that left that I know of is Caitlin. She started law school last month.

Part of the confusion over the 100 hr max credit cap is due to somewhat nonstandard wording in the contract. At Compass, "pay time" is what's called credit time at most airlines. "Credit time" is defined in the Compass pilot contract as "all time credited to a pilot for flight time limitations purposes. It does not pertain to or govern time credited to a pilot for pay purposes."

So far, so good. From that, you'd think ahhh I'm capped at 100 hrs credit because that's the FAA limitation. But then you go on to the next page, where it says:

"Credit time consists of time credited for Hours Flown [block or better]...plus time credited pursuant to the following references:"

Taxi, Ready Reserve, Reserve Daily Rate, Minimum Duty Period, Bid Scheduled Trip guarantee, Junior Man assignment guarantee, transfer, vacation, deadhead credit, supervisory flying, training, sick leave, association leave, FOQA leave, and jury duty.

Other than a few things that could add pay that aren't mentioned in that list (extra pay for clearing customs, etc), it sounds like credit time is almost always going to equal pay time. And that's limited to 100 hrs for the month and presumably 1000 hrs for the year. The thing is, that's going to make it very easy for everyone to reach their respective limits by the end of the month and by mid-November. They're either going to have a massive timing out problem, staff more than 10 pilots per plane, or work something out with the union.

Given that this contract was negotiated by mainline NWA, I'm wondering if this wording wasn't put in by the union. At any normal airline it would serve to keep the company from working you to death. Only at the stupid regionals do people think it's great to block 100 hrs and credit 130 hrs to make up for the pathetic payrates.

 

[Jiminmem]

Thanks Rich, I'll just make a note card to remind me, I'll probably need it.

Have you made any progress with Air Tran. I can't believe you had to go through everything Pinnacle can throw at you to be screwed over by Air Tran. What a great industry.

 

[Lear70]

HA! Yeah, that's the ironic part. Survive PCL, an airline that has a tendency to "fire first, ask questions later", just to get wrongfully terminated by a major that's "supposed" to have an "employee-friendly" culture.

No progress at all. Company denied initial hearing, moving to system board which, in all likelihood, won't be until March of 2008 and which, in all likelihood, will get deadlocked and moved to arbitration 9-12 months later.

Maybe Christmas of next year I'll be back on property. In the meantime, we're just slowly compiling evidence and documenting everything. It's amazing how openly retaliatory they were with me... I mean, come on... publishing someone's termination letter within 24 hours in the crew room in MULTIPLE COPIES??!! Hell, it was published in the crew room before I even got a copy. No, I'm not kidding.

Falls squarely in the YGBSM category...

Should have listened to my grandmother and gone back to law school after 9/11.

 

[xjhawk]

occam, my speculation was not about the sim ride. It was about who was being hired and interviewed. It was about the total hours some of the ATI's they hired have....very low time. thats it. I know a few of them, they are good guys, but I do know somehting about low time pilots, and think experience does matter. But i do not knock them for taking the opportunity. Just that it was given over more experienced guys and gals. Thats it. About the person I know who got a email and maybe a call for an interview. Well, I know about that case, and it is a case of innovative log book entries. Seriously..... I do not have a bad attitude, I am pretty positive about where I am at in my career. yes I want to work at NWa, thats why I was an intern there back in 2000 in the 320 fleet. And I also am willing to wait my turn to get to NWA with the proposed flow with XJ, where I am currently a Capt. I am looking forward to making and saving some extra money for the time i am making first year pay there. Baring any down turns, I will be there, and look forward to seeing you ....but it will not be at an interview, since I do not think I am getting a call......well, who knows, but you might know this.....are those of us at XJ that would want to come early, are we able to get hired "off the street" before our flow starts? Thanks for all your posts......attitudes and humor come off wieid on these posts.....so take no offense....later.

 

[Occam's Razor]

It was about the total hours some of the ATI's they hired have....very low time. thats it. I know a few of them, they are good guys, but I do know somehting about low time pilots, and think experience does matter.

Agree! It does matter. The ATI's that are matriculating to the line under the old Jeff Carlson deal have been building time flying under the new Test & Ferry LOA. It's not the same as real line flying...but it's not sitting in a cubicle, dreaming of long Minot layovers.

Jeff soothed some of of ALPA's concerns about "experience" when he assured us that all ATI's going to the line would be required to fly the DC-9 for a year before they could bid off it. We'll see if that policy continues...or if Tim Rainey changes it.

We lost more than a few ATI's and other "internal" hires over the years. I gave OE to one gal in early-2001 on the DC-9 that was at almost 100-hours (of OE). She didn't make it.

But i do not knock them for taking the opportunity. Just that it was given over more experienced guys and gals. Thats it.

They chose a diferent path to the same goal. I've met a number of the new ATI's at NATCO, and they are all low-timers. They come with no "Jeff Carlson" deal in place...so I don't know what will happen to them. I suspect NWA will have to do something to entice pilots to do the ATI gig, cuz I don't think it's as good a deal as it once was.

About the person I know who got a email and maybe a call for an interview. Well, I know about that case, and it is a case of innovative log book entries.

That's unfortunate. I suspect it's not limited to those applying in the current cycle.

...are those of us at XJ that would want to come early, are we able to get hired "off the street" before our flow starts?

I haven't been able to get a straight answer from any of the HR bosses on that. (The worker bee's report there are MSA guys in the mix, but I haven't seen any names) My Spidey Sense tells me there is some stalling going on to prevent MSA from becoming too understaffed. I'll know more next month.

Thanks for all your posts......attitudes and humor come off wieid on these posts.....so take no offense....later.

I take no offense to ANY posts on an anonymous Forum. Good luck!

 

[FLYINGBOAT]

My Northwest initial application/ NEED an expert5 to answer this one!

Hi Guys;
I applied on line 3rd week of August, Got an application as a link to go to and fiill out the app just a few days later. However misteriously Both LINKS that were sent by NW DISAPPEARD from my email list. In another words I never got a chance to do the application. Initially when I got it I was on a 4 day trip so waiting to get home and then it was just gone. I have been trying to get hold of Northwest and explain it, so I COULD DOTHE APPLICATION again. So far no luck. So a few days ago I did the initial thing again and now waiting for the links/ application. Is there someone I could write to or call and let them know that I had qualified then and now to resend the link or am I just screwed and should just wait and see what happens.

Any input from any expert in such matters is really appriciated in advance,

Flyingboat

 

[captain dad]

Isn't NWA that airline that dry humps all of its labor groups into concessions and then creates new ways to wipsaw unions out of even more money?

Yeah, I wanna work for them! That way I can be sure I'll hate my life and be able to bitch about it daily.

NWA is hell on wings! Enjoy.