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When will it turn around?

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I've always believed that what most people think is a sun on the Mesa logo is actually a representation of a sphincter - but I am sicker than most.

Sorry - didnt mean to hijack the thread here.

Anyone think projected retirements in the next 3- 5 years might shorten the furlough "cycle" ? Remember all the BS about the pilot shortage and so on based on retirements - or is all that out the window now?
 
Retirements

Supposedly this is the calm before the storm. 2007 is when the retirements really get going and the Baby Boomers all start hitting 60. The trick is to get in and get a seniority # before that hits, so you can cash in on the retirements. Supposedly around 50% of the major pilots are to retire between now and 2015. But, the next 2-3 years are pretty slow for those retirements.
 
By the way, I got my info about the retirements from Kit Darby and Co. But, if you think about it historically, it makes sense. Who is turning 60 this year? People born in 1943. What was happening that year? War. So, there weren't a lot of people born that year. The war wasn't over until late 1945. And, the troops didn't really get home in big numbers until 1946. It takes time to court, get married and procreate, so Baby Boomers didn't start getting born until late 1946 or early 1947. Therefore, you don't start seeing them reach mandatory retirement age until 2006/2007. Doesn't help right now, but I'll bet in four years, the economy gets better and older pilots start retiring in droves. The future's so bright...:cool:
 
It's going to be slow for a while....

When the first officers in my trusty
C-650 are former B-757 (USAir), and
B-727 (Kitty Hawk), and B-737 (Midway)
check airmen, I have a feeling in my gut
that it's gonna be VERY slow for a while.

Right now the best strategy is to "hunker down" with the most stable flying job you can secure and hang on.

By the way, if we have another "9-11
type" aviation type attack, so much of
the public will stop flying that Southwest
and Jet Blue will be running B-737 ETOPS
on international legs.

(I hope I'm wrong)
 
I'd consider staying in for the long haul. I have some friends that did it and it gave them a bit more flexibility in their civvie careers. Defined benefit pensions are going by the wayside. I've heard Delta is scrapping theirs which means other majors may do likewise. I'm sure our brothers at UAL will never see the kind of retirement they were promised on the first day of ground school. Southwest, JetBlue, and other upstarts seem to only have 401K and stock options. So much of this is a crap shoot. I have a buddy that got on with Braniff back in the day. He thought he had the world by the balls. We've all watched many airlines fall. Think of Eastern and Pan Am. Another friend had over 10 years @ EAL when he found himself on the street. Look at your friends that went to TWA or Airways. Imagine being unemployed after 15 years with the same outfit. Everyone made a what seemed like a good decision at the time.
Remember it's not what you make, it's what you keep. We all have a consumer tendency to live up to or just beyond our means. The $2400 mortgage payment looks like Mt Everest when you're collecting $323.00 per week on unemployment.
There is some likelihood of ending up at a regional when you get out. We're seeing a lot more military guys these days. The advantage of a regional when you first enter the civilian job market is that it's a great place to break into the PT 121 environment. The pay kinda sucks for the first year or two compared to O-3 or O-4 pay.
Ex-military guys that stay at the regional seem to fall into 2 camps. The ones that started with a regional after 20+ years of service are often pretty content. They find a domicile they like, start getting 3 day trips with weekends off and life is good. The ones that get stuck at a regional involuntarily seem less happy. Noone likes it when a plan doesn't work out and if you were counting on getting to a major and your long term goals revolve around that major airline seat, life at a regional may not be the most pleasant.
Just food for thought. Take it FWIW.
 
Re: It's going to be slow for a while....

sweptwingz said:


By the way, if we have another "9-11
type" aviation type attack, so much of
the public will stop flying that Southwest
and Jet Blue will be running B-737 ETOPS
on international legs.

(I hope I'm wrong)


On the light side, Aloha is already flying B737 ETOPS. ;)
 
4 years, 7 months, 14 days, 6 hours and 24 minutes....From next Tuesday. That's if your name starts with an "R", If not, add 3 more days. That's when it will turn around...yea...I think that's it.
 
For what it's worth. found this today and thought it related a bit to this thread: http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/blankley.htm. Basically, an editorialist at the Washington Times gives his predictions for 2003. His opinion probably isn't worth more than anyone else's but is kind of interesting to read. Among other things, he thinks that the markets will continue to drop during 2003 until beginning a sharp turnaround toward the end of the year.

Just tried that link and it didn't work for me...so here's the full text:

First , the good news: A year from now civilization will still be intact and most Americans correctly will be looking forward to a very good 2004, in which the economy will be growing, President Bush will be admired through much of the world and his re-election will be almost certain. But, before the cheering must come the struggle. So follows the not completely cheerful predictions for 2003.
• Washington politics will start out pitting the White House against congressional Republicans in a sometimes vituperative fight over federal spending. This will actually be a three-sided fight between the White House and conservative back-bench deficit-hawk Republicans , the appropriators and the Republican congressional leadership. The White House/conservative team will demand spending limits that can't pass either the House or the Senate. The appropriators will be called rude names by conservatives. The leadership will try to take over from the appropriators, but will fail to get the low White House spending numbers passed. The Democrats will sit on the side lines and giggle. Ultimately, events will force spending far in excess of the early White House demands.
• Deficit spending in fiscal year 2003-04 will top $300 billion. This will be the product of both higher defense and domestic spending and lower federal revenues due to a sputtering economy.
• The still overpriced stock markets, facing low corporate profits, flagging consumer demand and some interruptions in world trade will drop about another 10 to 15 percent by the end of the year. Extreme volatility will make matters seem worse than they are.
• The dollar will drop about 10 percent in value against the Euro, as our trade deficit continues to balloon.
• Saddam Hussein and his Baath Party will be out of power in Iraq by the springtime. Our occupation of Iraq will be managed without any tragic incidents.
• The fall of Saddam will trigger uprisings in at least two Middle East countries — one such government will fall to a fundamentalist/jihadist regime, the other to a more or less pro-western, moderate, democratically inclined government.
• The flow of oil temporarily will be slowed or stopped by these events. There will be a furious debate within the Bush administration and in Congress over whether to militarily intervene to secure the disrupted oil flows. Bush will decide to act. After an initially embarrassing series of U.S. military snafus and native sabotaging of the oil fields, order will be regained and by the winter oil will be flowing at record levels and the price of oil will settle at between $15 and $20 a barrel (after taking a wild ride to briefly over $100 on the spot market.)
• There will be two major, but not catastrophic, terrorist attacks. One either will be in Europe or at sea. The other will be in the United States. It will be obvious to the public that the federal emergency response to the attack in the United States was poorly conceived and carried-out.
• After the immediate shock and clean up, several Democratic Party leaders will badly misjudge the politics of those events. Democratic presidential aspirants will fall in to a contest to see who can criticize President Bush more harshly. By over-playing their hand, the Democratic leaders will lose the public. The public will rally to the President, despite the administrative failure surrounding the terrorist attack.
• Hillary Clinton, who will have kept her head down through the post-attack politics, will step forward to salvage the Democratic Party from its self-inflicted damage. She will explain that based on her 8 years in the White House, she understands the terrible challenges a President faces. Whether she runs for president or not, she will establish herself as the natural leader of the Democratic Party. With the exception of Senator Lieberman, most of the other Democratic leaders will have permanently marginalized themselves by mismanaging the politics of terror.
• Thanksgiving 2003 long will be remembered as a highly emotional coming together of the country, after which an explosion of optimism will create the most profitable Christmas shopping season on record.
• That will be the turnaround moment for the U.S. economy. A December 1000-point run up of the Dow Jones average on the New York Stock Exchange will trigger the beginning of the boom of 2004.
• North Korea will have gone back to sleep after a fitful springtime.
• After a not-so-private call by Republican Party elders to take Dick Cheney off the ticket (in order to groom an heir apparent for 2008), President Bush will successfully convince them that Mr. Cheney must remain on the ticket — for the good of the country.


Tony Blankley is editorial page editor of The Washington Times. His syndicated column appears on Wednesdays. E-mail: [email protected].
 
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I hope it turns around sooner than later like everyone, but when it does it will be very, very competitive to get hired at the majors!!!!!!!!!!! I can see a large number of military pilots going 1st like 75% vs. 25% civilian, like in the mid 90's when that hiring boom started. There will be 1,000's of military pilots who will be more than ready to go to the majors when that window opens agian.
 
Auto Industry

The auto people are saying not until 2005 will they return to their previous levels, and as goes the auto industry so goes the country. There is no time in the last 50 years where the economy has been strong without a strong auto industry. When an auto worker gets a $7,000 annual bonus, he takes his family to Fla on an airplane, when they don't get the bonus they drive. There will no serious major hiring until 2007, the major will downsize and concentrate on thier money making routes, and farm the marginal markets out to the regionals. With all of the laid off pilots taking those jobs, there will be very little input from outside.
 

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