When to pull power back on takeoff.

[Tonala2k]

Nosehair hit it on the head. It's for training purposes. Any yahoo can keep it full throtle. It requires a pilot to be in positive control and well ahead of the aircraft to perform this technique. If your are learning in a complex aircraft you are no longer an amature pilot. Avbug, as always, shared some great examples of needing to do it in "real life." Also as nose hiar said, the CFI needs to imress these ideas on the student. My biggest fear is training students who cannot fly the plane to its limits and how to stay away from the limits. Few people have told me I am going to get myself or someone else killed. The reason I do not have casualities is because even when bushing the limits I always have a safe way out. That is what students need to know, the safe way out.

 

[svcta]

Nosehair hit it on the head. It's for training purposes. Any yahoo can keep it full throtle. It requires a pilot to be in positive control and well ahead of the aircraft to perform this technique. If your are learning in a complex aircraft you are no longer an amature pilot. Avbug, as always, shared some great examples of needing to do it in "real life." Also as nose hiar said, the CFI needs to imress these ideas on the student. My biggest fear is training students who cannot fly the plane to its limits and how to stay away from the limits. Few people have told me I am going to get myself or someone else killed. The reason I do not have casualities is because even when bushing the limits I always have a safe way out. That is what students need to know, the safe way out.

I've read this several times now and cannot make any sense of it. I know it's 5 o'clock somewhere, but it's only just now 11:36 where I am.

And teaching something just to get a point across when you know it's not safe in the real world is the worst idea of the day(it's still early). Climb to 1000', level off. What is a part of any level off in any airplane? Power adjustment! Pattern work or not. So there's your "control manipulation" Retracts, too. It's a rental...mostly used for training. Cycles on the gear are the cost of doing business. "Positive climb......gear up" Just saying it doesn't count, make em do it.

 

[Tonala2k]

That really did not make any sense, did it? I am clearly too ill to keep my mind straight so let me make it short and sweet. As a good neighbor (I always fly into or out from residential areas) I pull the props back to two thousand five hundred and often beat the landing gear on their way up. Not that I am rushed, but because I know the plane that well. I do it on almost every flight and make a cruise climb departure. I expect my students to do the same, not because it is good procedure, but sometimes it is best practice. I feel many such decisions are like authorizing a new drug. It is important to weigh the benefits against probability and severity of risk. If I needed to pick someone up and was confident that the WX would remain VFR, an INOP DG would not keep me from going.

Also concerning the comment about 'it's a rental.' Personally when I eat out, I make it a habit to not spill my meal on the table or floor. I do not stick gum to the plate or stiff the server on a tip. Even though the restaurant is making good money from my wife and me, I feel obliged to flush the toilet, wipe the counter after washing my hands and deposit the paper towel in the wastebasket. These would all fall upon the owner/operator under the category of 'operational expenses.' However, as people we need to learn to respect other people, even if they are making money from us.

 

[Metro752]

That really did not make any sense, did it? I am clearly too ill to keep my mind straight so let me make it short and sweet. As a good neighbor (I always fly into or out from residential areas) I pull the props back to two thousand five hundred and often beat the landing gear on their way up. Not that I am rushed, but because I know the plane that well. I do it on almost every flight and make a cruise climb departure. I expect my students to do the same, not because it is good procedure, but sometimes it is best practice. I feel many such decisions are like authorizing a new drug. It is important to weigh the benefits against probability and severity of risk. If I needed to pick someone up and was confident that the WX would remain VFR, an INOP DG would not keep me from going.

Also concerning the comment about 'it's a rental.' Personally when I eat out, I make it a habit to not spill my meal on the table or floor. I do not stick gum to the plate or stiff the server on a tip. Even though the restaurant is making good money from my wife and me, I feel obliged to flush the toilet, wipe the counter after washing my hands and deposit the paper towel in the wastebasket. These would all fall upon the owner/operator under the category of 'operational expenses.' However, as people we need to learn to respect other people, even if they are making money from us.

Yeah so comparing flushing a toilet to not operating the engines as recommended in the POH makes sense how?

 

[timeoff]

Yeah so comparing flushing a toilet to not operating the engines as recommended in the POH makes sense how?

What recommended action in a POH are you referencing? I have never seen an alt reference as to when to set climb power in any piston POH. That is entirely at the pilot's discretion.

Now, pulling power back before the gear comes up (<200agl) is silly. I don't care what the airport neighbors think. They live with it and hear it all day, every day. What is 15 seconds of "tolerating" my little IO-360 gonna matter, when a 757 departed just three minutes prior?

 

[svcta]

I never care what the neighbors think. They bought a house next to an airport. Screw them until an official abtement procedure tells me otherwise, and even still that will almost always be a max percormance climb to a certain altitude or a lateral procedure.....NEVER A POWER REDUCTION AT LOWER THAN NORMAL ALTITUDE.

The point with the rental comment was that people who choose to operate more in the interest of noise and cost considerations will end up in a smoking hole. These things can be considered, of course, but "positive climb; gear up; power back" is not safe IMO. To modify an old joke, if it's being a good neighbor you're interested in: Have you ever heard the noise made by a small airplane crashing in to a house?

Sometimes the neighbors don't know what's best for them.

 

[USMCmech]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some of the newer aircraft even tell you that full power is "okay" all the time. I seem to remember a new mooney that had that in the books. Not that I agree with the principle.

At full throttle the "power enrichment valve" is opened making your mixture supper rich to aid cooling. Back it off to 25" and that valve closes creating hotter temps. Nowere in a Cessna 182 POH does it sugest partial power climbs. I leave it wide open to altitude.

Fast foward to 8,000ft, full throttle won't create full power anyway because of the thinner air. Check your cruise performence chart in the POH

Lean it back to proper EGT, and enjoy the ride at 65% power and the advertised perforance numbers.


You are a pilot not an engineer, fly the plane the way the POH says to. Don't change procedures because somebody on the internet said so.

 

[svcta]

You are a pilot not an engineer, fly the plane the way the POH says to. Don't change procedures because somebody on the internet said so.

Sounds like a throw back to the presssure carb days. Still one of the best methods around when properly set up.

As far as the engineer crack, first of all I was making a point with the new airplane's manuals. I think someone's got their hand in the till with an overhaul company(kidding, sort of).

You would be correct if the powerplant maufacturers were not constantly tweaking their own suggested procedures. And I once worked for a cargo operator that had a TBO extension waiver from our FSDO on big continentals. As a matter of fact I think the thought that he put in to his powerplant management program(which allowed us an extra 500 hours on a 1500 hour engine). In certain cases I think that a full and proper understanding of what exactly is going on with your engines, especially recips, can allow one to generate very effective way of taking them on their own. Of course, not with disregard to what the manual says, but above and beyond it in most cases. I think our numbers were impressive, 3 failures/shutdowns in a little over 20,000 hours is a FINE record for a piston operator.

Besides, I don't think I made any radical suggestions to anyone about changing the way they operate, did I? Excepting the advice on flying an airplane as safely as possible given the circumstances of the question asked.

Rant over.

 

[USMCmech]

As far as the engineer crack, first of all I was making a point with the new airplane's manuals. I think someone's got their hand in the till with an overhaul company(kidding, sort of).

Sorry I really didn't mean to dirrect that crack at you.

More oriented toward the "hanger engineers" that have no clue, yet continue to spread rumors and old wives tales as though they were scripture.

 

[svcta]

Sorry I really didn't mean to dirrect that crack at you.

More oriented toward the "hanger engineers" that have no clue, yet continue to spread rumors and old wives tales as though they were scripture.

cool, then I totally understand and tend to agree. I only spread rumors about my friends' wives.