when 'students' attack part II

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

Almost had a student bring the gear up in an Arrow on a short field landing once. And this is in a plane with a manual flap bar!! He had forgotten to bring up the flaps (normal procedure in a Piper- gives you better braking) and I let him know that just after we touched down and he was fumbling around near the throttle quadrant.... I could almost see it coming. I think his hand had a red mark on it for a few days, good thing I didnt break off the gear selector knocking his hand away

That student had flown manual-flap Pipers since day one too... never let your guard down!

Also had a student stall a Mooney at about 20 feet AGL. He pitched up AND chopped the power on a short field... not a good combo. I took the plane, added full power and kept it level so it would bounce off all three wheels to distribute the load. It was a pretty hard bounce but not as bad as it could have been. We did some aerodynamics ground after that one.

 

[FracCapt]

I used to teach in a Cessna 310 fairly often. My procedure for engine failures was to turn off the fuel selector for the appropriate engine. Both were located in the same area(and out of view unless you leaned forward to see them), so it wasn't obvious which one I had just killed by the position of my hand. I told my students to call out checking that both fuel valves were open and move their hand down there - but don't actually move any valves. One day, climbing out of about 50', I reached down and cut the right engine. I felt a shudder from the right side of the airplane, and looked out to see the right prop coming to a stop....feathered... I looked down at the prop levers - both full forward. Well, combined with the low altitude(even though we were still climbing at 300-400fpm) and a feathered prop staring us in the face, my student decided he needed to actually check the position of the fuel selectors...and found one of them out of position...and moved it....whoops...wrong one. As I was looking out at the prop, he shut the fuel off to the good engine. This was about 300' or so. I immediately shoved the nose over to land in the field ahead, and saw his hand down near the selectors....I reached down, pushed them both down, and the left engine restarted. We leveled out around 100', then resumed the climb. Returned for landing, and got a pressure washer to clean out the mess I left in the cockpit.

 

[JetBlast2000]

Take note of a valuable lesson here. If your going to cut the fuel, wait till you have several thousand feet under you. Our school had a 5k foot minimum before we could cut the fuel using the selectors.

I had a student who, on decent into the a/p (about 1000 feet), instead of pulling the throttles back, decided he wanted to pull the props back. I caught him just before he feathered both engines. He just got really confused and forgot some very important basics. Just goes to show you, if you can survive flight instruction you might just have a career.

JB2k

 

[FracCapt]

Take note of a valuable lesson here. If your going to cut the fuel, wait till you have several thousand feet under you. Our school had a 5k foot minimum before we could cut the fuel using the selectors.

That may have something to do with the specific aircraft you guys are using. In the 310, as soon as you get the fuel lever in the OFF position, the engine quits...and as soon as you put it back, it starts right back up(assuming the prop is still windmilling). It's been many, many years - but IIRC, the Seneca wasn't like that, so I'm assuming many others weren't. I think the engine took a good 10 seconds or so to quit, and about that long to restart. I flew the Duchess a few times, but it was long enough ago and few enough hours I don't remember anything about it except that the single engine climb performance was horrible to non-existant.

Unfortunately, pulling the throttle back to idle or zero thrust gives the student a distinct advantage. They KNOW which engine you just pulled. I've told students I was going to fail the left engine, then reached down to the fuel selector and failed the right engine instead....guess what....right rudder to the floor. It told me that they were not reacting to the airplane, but reacting to what they expected...much the same as if they see which throttle you pull back.

 

[ucf_motorcycle]

Whats with all you CFI's messing yourself in the plane during emergency situations?? I hope this is a joke.

 

[JetPilot500]

Mine happened at about 30 ft AGL... I never knew a Duchess could fly with it's nose pointed 60° left of the direction it was traveling, but gosh darn it can! Just ask JetPilot500!

I'll bet if the instructor had given a good preflight brief, instead of Stuffing his face for 45 minutes while the student was preflighting, that woulda never happened!!!!!!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

the truth comes out!!!....

 

[banned username 2]

I'll bet if the instructor had given a good preflight brief, instead of Stuffing his face for 45 minutes while the student was preflighting, that woulda never happened!!!!!!!

You said you knew everything already! And it was an hour! What? Now you can't tell time!?!?!?

 

[JetPilot500]

You said you knew everything already! And it was an hour! What? Now you can't tell time!?!?!?

Now everyone can see what a great instructor I had.

It's a good thing I learned how to self study!

 

[huncowboy]

Through my MEL training I managed to feather the good engine on 2 occasions. The sound of the governor combined with the expression of my MEI is priceless.

Both times the instructor caught it within a second before I was able to push it back forward. It was embarrassing though. Something you would think you would never do and then there you are looking dumb screwing a otherwise perfectly good flight.

BTW In the Seminole they wouldn't let us cut the fuel with the fuel selector, only with the mixture. They covered the levers with the checklist and pulled one... I would have loved to get a cut with a fuel selector when I least expected just to see how I would do... but it did not happen...

Anyways, my MEL training was kind of a letdown. From the very beginning I saw the PA44, I wanted to fly it (just like any private candidate after they get the tour). I could not wait to start my multi. But apart of the additional speed, I did not find anything too cool about it afterwards. Especially getting in/out and the preflight was anything but cool. Not to mention the cowl flaps that almost cost me a finger or two.

Sometimes when you're doing your training day after day, the stress of getting done (sooner for less money) spoils the whole fun.

0.02

 

[BankAccount=0$]

BTW In the Seminole they wouldn't let us cut the fuel with the fuel selector, only with the mixture. They covered the levers with the checklist and pulled one... I would have loved to get a cut with a fuel selector when I least expected just to see how I would do... but it did not happen...

Back during my MEL/COMM X-C, my instructor did that very thing to me. Comair academy had a strict policy of not killing an engine with the selector (probably a good idea due to their lousy maint. at the time). Somewhere around 11:00 pm over South Florida my instructor decides to sneak the right selector to off. The instructor was not exactly the easiest guy to work with, and always followed the rules of the academy so this was not something I ever expected him to do. Sure enough I'm flying along sorta zoned out half asleep, and the airplane starts to yaw a bit to the right.....hmmm say's I, what the heck is that from.........then it just lets go. Of course I like any student or multi pilot does the well rehearsed drill and low and behold the fuel is off, turn it back on, and away we go.

I learned a very valuable lesson that day for when I became an instructor. I can tell a student a thousand times what will happen in X situation, but untill you let them experience it for real I'm not sure it ever sinks in. Of course that doesn't apply to EVERY situation, but killing an engine with the fuel selector (although against company policy) was not really a dangerous thing to do, and the result was a real world understanding of how it can sneak up on you when you least expect it........

 

[propilot1983]

C210 Fuel system and twins...

I haven't flown a C210, but I heard about an accident with a pilot who ran a tank dry in C210 while in the pattern (intentionally). I don't know what this guy was thinking but that's beside the point. I heard from my old CFI that the fuel system on the 210 consists of a small tank with a float valve that holds fuel before it is sucked into the engine, similar to that of a fuel bowl on a small engine carb. Apparantly, the guy sucked the tank dry and before it could fill back up, he was having to set up for an emergency landing. Does anybody know about the fuel system on a C210 and if there is any similar system on a multi? I am going to look on the NTSB site and see if i can find their report.

Andrew

 

[minitour]

hmmm say's I, what the heck is that from

Can't even begin to tell you how much that made me laugh!

Great quote

 

[FracCapt]

I haven't flown a C210, but I heard about an accident with a pilot who ran a tank dry in C210 while in the pattern (intentionally). I don't know what this guy was thinking but that's beside the point. I heard from my old CFI that the fuel system on the 210 consists of a small tank with a float valve that holds fuel before it is sucked into the engine, similar to that of a fuel bowl on a small engine carb. Apparantly, the guy sucked the tank dry and before it could fill back up, he was having to set up for an emergency landing. Does anybody know about the fuel system on a C210 and if there is any similar system on a multi? I am going to look on the NTSB site and see if i can find their report./QUOTE]

I have several hundred hours in the C210(all T210 and P210 variants), and I don't recall anything like that. It has been many years, though.

 

[CDVdriver]

Too many to mention them all here but this is a golden oldie:
We had a real headache student at this one place I worked.
Nicest guy on the ground but thick as sh*t.
One of the owners of the place who was his primary instructor got so fed up with him that he told me to do the guy's dual nite XC.
I'd already been flying most of the day so I was pretty worn out.
The guy had preflighted this 150 already so I get in with him and ask about the fuel.
"Oh we got plenty almost full..:"
So we set off in this cr*ppy 150 with only one dodgy VOR at night, on our way to one of these "dark-hole" airports.
About halfway in the middle of nowhere I kinda notice both the fuel gauges waving at me from the zero-stop. So I point at them and question this guy.
He comes up with the following: .." it was so dark I could not really see any the fuel in the tank.."
So we make it to this airport straight-in and put in an equal amount as the book's usable...
That taught me to always always always check the fuel myself.