When is Delta going to SELL/IPO CMR/ASA?

[General Lee]

I agree with with the general, the sooner comair gets ipo'd the better. Nobody at comair wanted the buy out, Delta got heavy handed and said sell or you loose your contract to fly for us.

It would be nice to be our own airline again and not get dragged down by stupid managment decisions.

The sooner the better.

Huh? You may not like the "real world" Cmrflyer. You would likely have to take a large pay cut just to be able to compete with the likes of Mesa and others that will "do it cheaper." Your new owner would stress this to you, saying "to be competitive and be able to get new contracts, we need to cut costs EVERYWHERE." Your industry leading rates (like our old industry leading rates) would go bye bye. Sure, I want us to sell or IPO you guys---but not because I don't love you guys, but rather for the needed cash or debt relief. It will never be like the "old days" at Comair---there will always be outward pressure from the likes of Mesa or others that will offer lower fee for departure services, and you will have to compete with them. We have learned that lesson too----the LCCs cost less, and now we make less. It's a new world.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Good point, but, and this is only my armchair quarterback opinion, its apples and oranges. With America West/USAir, people are hoping that the result will be at least as good as the sum of the parts. With ASA/CMR, there is no similar strength to sell. As Michael pointed out, Delta may not be able to afford to own us as opposed as not wanting to. Either way, it is not a good position to try and sell something from. I am concerned as to what this will mean for ASA/CMR. There are other ways to get rid of us...

Even if we do sell you guys, it sounds like not much would change flying wise. I am sure there would be an extended contract attached to it. Medflyer thinks there would be an added fee to the fee for departure scheme, but that is only speculation. Some investors would see it as a bargain--compared to the actual purchase price a few years ago. And, some billionaires want to become millionaires.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetflyer]

I agree with with the general, the sooner comair gets ipo'd the better. Nobody at comair wanted the buy out, Delta got heavy handed and said sell or you loose your contract to fly for us.

It would be nice to be our own airline again and not get dragged down by stupid managment decisions.

The sooner the better.

Cmrflyer,

I am also a Comair pilot, and I agree "THE SOONER WE'RE SOLD OR IPO'D THE BETTER"

Delta's best chance of survival is a MERGER.

Delta is a sinking ship without a merger. Ch 11 would stink for Delta. I don't see Delta surviving CH 11 bankruptcy. Grinstein has even said Delta is in really BAD SHAPE to enter CH 11, and it's a place he "REALLY WANTS TO AVOID".
--Delta has most of their assets tied up as collateral already so getting exit financing would be VERY DIFFICULT.
--DELTA has almost no cash and a sale of CMR/ASA wouldn't help but for a couple months.

If Comair is still owned by Delta when they CH 11, that's bad news for Comair.
--If Delta doesn't survive CH 11 and LIQUIDATES,while owning Comair, wouldn't COMAIR BE LIQUIDATED ALSO??
--Wouldn't Comair's planes and assets then be sold off to give the Delta's major stakeholders some of their money back??

SELL US NOW while you can still get more than a Big Mac, Fries, and a Coke for US!

Jet

 

[bafanguy]

ASA and CMR are both up for sale...nobody wants them. Word from the inside.

 

[General Lee]

Cmrflyer,

I am also a Comair pilot, and I agree "THE SOONER WE'RE SOLD OR IPO'D THE BETTER"

Delta's best chance of survival is a MERGER.

Delta is a sinking ship without a merger. Ch 11 would stink for Delta. I don't see Delta surviving CH 11 bankruptcy. Grinstein has even said Delta is in really BAD SHAPE to enter CH 11, and it's a place he "REALLY WANTS TO AVOID".
--Delta has most of their assets tied up as collateral already so getting exit financing would be VERY DIFFICULT.
--DELTA has almost no cash and a sale of CMR/ASA wouldn't help but for a couple months.

If Comair is still owned by Delta when they CH 11, that's bad news for Comair.
--If Delta doesn't survive CH 11 and LIQUIDATES,while owning Comair, wouldn't COMAIR BE LIQUIDATED ALSO??
--Wouldn't Comair's planes and assets then be sold off to give the Delta's major stakeholders some of their money back??

SELL US NOW while you can still get more than a Big Mac, Fries, and a Coke for US!

Jet

Wow, we have an RJ pilot Major CEO wannabe at Comair. Come on now. You don't think DL would survive a Chap 11? You don't? Grinstein said at that incommand session that we would survive regardless of what happens. He said we have good investors already---GE and AMEX----that are "impressed" with what we have accomplished so far. They know that fuel is hurting this whole industry somewhat, but they also see what we done with the budget and what we are continuing to do. He said they are doing what they can to stay out of court, and that our cutbacks will provide fruit eventually.

Getting financing would be difficult, eh? Look at USAir and AWA and their merger. Everyone thought USAir would be dead by now, and now they are merging their lopsided operations with a LCC large on the West Coast. Financing units are lining up regardless----infact a new one today came up with an extra $65 million out of nowhere. USAir got rid of their pensions and some of their debt, but still doesn't really have a well defined plan. They have submitted a bankruptcy plan to the judge as of late, but it is hard to figure out exactly what is going on. If we were to merge with someone, it would be with someone that compliments our routes and theirs. We may not have to do any of that.

Why would Grinstein say Chap 11 is a bad place he wants to avoid? He is still trying to get pension reform. If we don't get that, then they will probably have to go to court to release us of that financial burden. But, Grinstein would NOT go Chap 11 if he knew we wouldn't be able to get out. They have a plan, and the plan is to survive. As far as Comair and ASA----they will likely be sold IF needed.

Maybe if we sold Comair now they could become the next RJ LCC----like Indy Air. Pay cuts would rain down on you soon after the sale.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[doh]

The non wholey owned are the only ones who can get financing for new and bigger aircraft. The sooner we can get sold the sooner we can start to thrive again. Bring it on General! Oh, I believe Delta will survive. I just don't think they have any thing good planned for any one at Comair. We were a lot better off before the Delta fiasco. JMO.

 

[MedFlyer]

But, Grinstein would NOT go Chap 11 if he knew we wouldn't be able to get out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Grinstein doesn't necessarily have a choice. If DL's cash gets down to $1Billion or less, he will HAVE to file CH11. Regardless of whether or not DL can make it out, he won't have a choice. This team claims to have a plan to survive, but so far that plan isn't working, so well.

The plan called for oil prices to fall to $35-40 a barrel. Virtually every other airline out there expected oil prices to be higher, but only DL's crack team thought oil prices would fall. Because they were so off the mark, DL is now losing more money than planned.

DL continues to bring in lots of high CASM RJ's...even though you yourself said the high-CASM RJ's don't work against LCC's. Guess what, DL is putting RJ's head to head with WN on FLL-TPA and FLL-JAX starting next week. DL also keeps adding more long-distance RJ flights.

DL's plan called for better customer service, yet DL continues to cut service. On many DL first class flights, DL offers the same or less food than WN or B6.

DL's plan continues to put more and more flights through ATL. Now when the weather goes bad there, all hell breaks loose. DL can't reroute people through other hubs, because those other hubs don't have the capacity to handle even a small number of those pax.

As for AMEX/GE, they don't necessarily believe DL is doing well. GE doesn't want DL dumping a ton of planes on the market, so they'll prop DL up for the time being. But as other carriers get stronger, a time will come when GE won't need to keep DL propped up. AMEX gave DL a big vote of no confidence when they got into bed with JetBlue two weeks ago. For years, AMEX has only done business with one US airline...Delta. Now, AMEX sees that DL is slowly dying so they are drumming up new business with JetBlue....apparently they weren't so "impressed" with Delta after all.

 

[inthewind]

I hate to rain on the Comair pilots' parade again but here goes. Question: What is the common link between all of the carriers that are losing money today? Answer: RJs. Their CASM is too stinkin' high to make money no matter what you pay the crews when fuel is $60+ bbl. You might say 'but we're fee for departure, same price every flight'. Well yes and no. The crew, ramp, lease and landing fees are the same but fuel is not. Guess who buys the gas, that's right kids, Mother Delta, United, Continental, Northwest, Independence. I'm sorry but the fuel burn for an RJ is not much better than that for a 737 or a Scarebus. I'm not slammin' the crews, hell I flew the damn things for almost three years before the hammer fell at Indy. Just stating the sad facts. The mainline guys are right, [/B]it's the fuel costs, stupid


No really, not flame bait. Please discuss.


Live to Ride, Ride to Live.

 

[twobits]

General, you keep bringing up the point that RJ's have riddled Delta with Debt. That is true, however, the RJ's are accumulating a positive cash flow when compared to the average cost of capital they are buying them with. So, how do businesses make money? Leverage. What does that mean? Debt!!! you just have to make enough to cover the payment of the debt plus your required profit margin. ASA and Comair are doing this, which is one reason they have grown rapidly over the last few years. Sure, the casm may be slightly higher on an RJ but it is makes much more sense to use ASA on ATL to Shreveport 6 times a day rather than having two mainline flights a day. my $.02

 

[jetflyer]

Why would Grinstein say Chap 11 is a bad place he wants to avoid? He is still trying to get pension reform. If we don't get that, then they will probably have to go to court to release us of that financial burden. But, Grinstein would NOT go Chap 11 if he knew we wouldn't be able to get out. They have a plan, and the plan is to survive. As far as Comair and ASA----they will likely be sold IF needed.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General Lee---
"Things are great"
"Things are peachy"
"Those pesky pensions are just financial burdens"
"Delta is strong and getting stronger"
"Fuel surcharges will save the day"
"When we sell Comair/ASA we'll be almost completely debt free!!"
"People are lining up to throw money at Delta"
"Delta hasn't failed to plan, and certainly doesn't plan to fail"

Does everyone remember that IRAQI, grey haired goon that did newscasts on IRAQI TV every night when we were attacking Iraq? He to the very end, even as we entered Baghdad, was saying how the Iraqi's were kicking the U.S. militaries arses etc. It was very comical.

General Lee reminds me of that guy.

Sell Comair for $10 Million if that's all you can get. Heck pay someone $10 Million if you must if no buyer can be found! JUST GET RID OF COMAIR!!
Jet