What's the point of ARG/US?

[flytheblue]

Looking for some info on how this ARG/US program works for the pilots in relation to hiring and the pilot's background.
Gold and Platinum seem to be the most common ratings, but what does that mean if you are a charter operator- what are you looking for when hiring pilots then?
Any input is appreciated!

 

[lazyace75]

Looking for some info on how this ARG/US program works for the pilots in relation to hiring and the pilot's background.
Gold and Platinum seem to be the most common ratings, but what does that mean if you are a charter operator- what are you looking for when hiring pilots then?
Any input is appreciated!

It's nothing but a rating system that is used by ARG/US to tell THEIR paying customers what a certain charter operator's rating is. Similar to Wyvern.

Both are scams in my opinion.

To answer your question about hiring pilots....that ARG/US rating (whatever it may be for a particular operator) means nothing really. You only get PLATINUM rated if you have a successful audit by them. GOLD rated is pretty much standard if you haven't had any accidents or the like. SILVER means something has happened in the past to that particular operator.

 

[Count Dracula]

Just went through an ARG/US audit. Wasn't impressed.

 

[Seadogrun]

Don't you only get platinum if you pay them a bunch of money? It's all a scam however it even though the ratings don't really mean anything some customers/brokers will only use a charter company with a rating.

 

[flytheblue]

Thanks for the info. That clears it up a little with regard to the "operator".

With regard to the pilots, if the company is ARG/US don't they require you to have a certain number of hours in the aircraft (and in general) and a 'pristine' pilot record also?

 

[t-bone]

Thanks for the info. That clears it up a little with regard to the "operator".

With regard to the pilots, if the company is ARG/US don't they require you to have a certain number of hours in the aircraft (and in general) and a 'pristine' pilot record also?

Yes..

 

[LJDRVR]

ARG/US and Wyvern are both marketing organizations who sell their "product" to folks who don't have the time or expertise to conduct due diligence. (It can be argued that these organizations don't posses the expertise or willingness to conduct a real audit either.)

How's this for a conflict of interest: Wyvern sells it's customers safety audits, where they are supposed to conduct an un-biased evaluation of an operation. At the same time, operations who succesfully complete this audit are "allowed" to use the Wyvern logo and certain marketing terms......for a fee!

These organizations are both total, complete, un-adulterated scams. If you are looking for a real safety audit, there are professional organizations out there who can actually conduct an in-depth audit.

Here's a question for you. In the year 2007, a quarter of a century since generation one CRM, how can Wyvern approve a flying organization that has absolutely no human factors training at all?

None.

(I'll post the answer for you later)

Safety has nothing to do with marketing.

 

[timmay]

Thanks for the info. That clears it up a little with regard to the "operator".

With regard to the pilots, if the company is ARG/US don't they require you to have a certain number of hours in the aircraft (and in general) and a 'pristine' pilot record also?

Here is a funny story, about three years ago I worked for a arg/us platinum operator. One day we get a call for a trip in our king air 90 which required two pilots because it was a "platinum" trip. The normal guy we used for the right seat only had about 1200 hours TT with 700 in the king air. According to arg/us he wasn't qualified for the trip because he didnt meet there total time minimums. However they would have been perfectly happy with me in the right seat with ZERO time in type. I hadnt flown a turboprop in a about 5 years at the time and I probably couldnt figure out how to tune the radios, but I have a bunch of jet time.

 

[mavrck]

ARG/US pilot minimuns:

PIC-
3,000 total. 1500 PIC. 250 in type. ATP

SIC-
1000 total. PIC 500.


hope that helps. It makes it hard to find pilots sometimes that meet this criteria and you want them to be ARG/US approved.

 

[lazyace75]

ARG/US pilot minimuns:

PIC-
3,000 total. 1500 PIC. 250 in type. ATP

SIC-
1000 total. PIC 500.


hope that helps. It makes it hard to find pilots sometimes that meet this criteria and you want them to be ARG/US approved.

But again, you will only NOT be able to take trips whose customer(s) require the ARG/US mins.....you can fly every other trip that each customer does not request those minumums (or ARG/US requirements).

Once again.....this is a bogus outfit. Just because you have the hours doesn't mean you know anything.

 

[joelo88]

Agreed on all that's been said. The company I with has had aduits from both companies and it's a total scam. I think we might have gotten a few good ideas from them but the crap our CP and DOO go through just to get these stupid approvals is unreal. What a waste of time and money. At least it's not our money...

And of course, we all know that rating a pilot's qualifications based on their total time is a TOTAL joke.

 

[Seadogrun]

The whole "catch" is that we all know that the rating system is a joke, however charter brokers and ultimately charter customers like seeing the ratings. So if a company wants to stay competitive alot of times it makes sense to jump throught the hoops (pay a bunch of money) and BUY the top ratings.

If only there was a way to get the consumers to realize what a joke it is.

 

[AZ Typed]

Here is a funny story, about three years ago I worked for a arg/us platinum operator. One day we get a call for a trip in our king air 90 which required two pilots because it was a "platinum" trip. The normal guy we used for the right seat only had about 1200 hours TT with 700 in the king air. According to arg/us he wasn't qualified for the trip because he didnt meet there total time minimums. However they would have been perfectly happy with me in the right seat with ZERO time in type. I hadnt flown a turboprop in a about 5 years at the time and I probably couldnt figure out how to tune the radios, but I have a bunch of jet time.

EXACTLY!!!

Unfortunately, it will take a miracle to change this stupid system - maybe even, as much as I hate to say this, federal regulations of these "audit" companies.

Like many of you I'm sure, I know of operators, airplanes, and pilots who are "AR/GUS platnum" approved who have NO business anwhere near an airplane. I wouldn't put my family on most AR/GUS flights. If these rich people are so damn smart, they would spend 5 GD minutes talking with the crew before sealing themselves in a death trap with foolish morons at the controls. That 5 minutes can go a long way - but most don't even check IDs or our licenenses!!!

*sigh*

Gotta love 91 gigs!

 

[Seadogrun]

Remember the Challenger wreck at TEB. It was a charter. The captain was out of currency and I think the FO was also. They overloaded and mis-balanced the airplane. Then they went off the end of the runway, through the grass, through the fence, over the road, hit a few cars that were driving, through a parking lot and into a warehouse. After all that it caught on fire.

All this while AR/GUS approved.

 

[JJET44]

Remember the Challenger wreck at TEB. It was a charter. The captain was out of currency and I think the FO was also. They overloaded and mis-balanced the airplane. Then they went off the end of the runway, through the grass, through the fence, over the road, hit a few cars that were driving, through a parking lot and into a warehouse. After all that it caught on fire.

All this while AR/GUS approved.

There was a lot more to that boon-goggle than that.
There was no operational control. The airplane and /or crew were piggybacking on someone elses cert.
AR/GUS and Wyvern is just something to make pilots pencil whip time. See it all the time. An FO starts with only 1000 total PIC and 4 months later he has 1500 after he only flew 40 hours a month in the last 4 months. Nobody questions it and now he upgrades.