What's Really Wrong With The Airline Industry - And Can It Be Fixed?

[Chest Rockwell]

Because they need to match southworsts and the other LCC's fares in order to keep from losing all their business, so they say. And these fares can't support decent wages.

You need to get over your hate of SWA and look at the facts. Pre-9/11 SWA had only about 5% of the domestic market share. I do not think that we had that much overall impact on most of the other carriers. I think it would be difficult for ExxonMobil to blame a small energy company for going out of business.

You have to get past the hourly pay rate. In 15+ years at SWA, mostof my friends have enjoyed higher rates of pay at the legacy carriers, yet they have made less due to the inefficient schedules. If you make 180/hr and only get paid for 3.5 while I make 150/hr for 6, I think that I win in the $ category. This can be done without a draconian schedule.

It is easy to brag about making 150K+ a year and only flying 400 hours a year, but you leave yourself wide open for someone to come along and do it better (more efficiently). The pay rate does affect the bottom line, but not nearly as much as how many you have to pay. The benefits and training costs can overtake an airlines ability to pay a better wage.

 

[pipejockey]

You need to get over your hate of SWA and look at the facts. Pre-9/11 SWA had only about 5% of the domestic market share.

And now they control the domestic market with over 50%. They are the ones most everyone must compete with but absolutely cannot in a hub and spoke network.

I do not think that we had that much overall impact on most of the other carriers. I think it would be difficult for ExxonMobil to blame a small energy company for going out of business.

southworst is not a small energy company. They are the largest domestic carrier in the country. Thanks to a 66% capacity increase in this decade while the network carriers have shrunk. The network carriers have tried to control capacity and raise fares to no avail. People flying out of the DC area will just go to BWI. People in Chicago area will just go to MDW. People in the SF area will just go to OAK. Dallas area, how about Love Field. You get the idea? Not to mention the places where they directly compete with the network carriers such as LAX, MCO, BNA, to name just a few. So you talk about not having much impact, well maybe that was true from that unfortunate day in 1971 until the 90s, but for the past 10+ years the impact has been immeasurable.

You have to get past the hourly pay rate. In 15+ years at SWA, mostof my friends have enjoyed higher rates of pay at the legacy carriers, yet they have made less due to the inefficient schedules. If you make 180/hr and only get paid for 3.5 while I make 150/hr for 6, I think that I win in the $ category. This can be done without a draconian schedule.

I'm not quite sure of the point you are trying to make here. But if I made 180 an hour I would be satisfied with a 60 to 70 hour line. But you say you guys can earn more at a lesser pay rate because you work more hours? Well of course! As much as I despise the southworst business model, I can agree with you that you all worked far greater hours than the network pilots did pre 9-11. We all don't always want to do 4-5 legs a day at 7-8 hours a day all the time. And as far as today, we are all working a southworst type schedule with 80-90 hour lines each month thanks to the necessity of having to compete with you. This excludes the transcon and international guys of course. The same guys that sell all the junior and domestic guys out all the time come contract negotiations because they don't want to risk their still cushy schedules!

 

[scoreboardII]

pipjock, site your source for SWA having over 50% market share, I can only find SWA at 26% as recent as 2006. Interestingly, USair has 38%...

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Pipe,

Like I said, you obvious hate won't let you see the facts. I have no idea where you get 50% from.

If you want to work more days for the same take home because you don't like the SWA schedule, more power to ya. I hope your airline can afford it, I really do.

BTW, for 2007, I averaged 3.1 legs per day.

 

[Andy]

I think Citibank fronted UAL some $20 billion over a period of time.

OK, if you're going to pull a number from your nether regions, the least you can do is make it halfway reasonable. UAUA's total debt is listed at $8.91B. Cite a source for this inflated number. Preferably UAUA's 10Q.

 

[waveflyer]

i love pilot "numbers" ... so ridiculous....

pipe ... aeroflot might be the place for you, china's too capitalistic for you

 

[Colonel Savage]

...Delta and United had contracts that would have paid 230 an hour for 737 equipment 7 YEARS AGO!!!...it would make swa the lowest once again as they always have been ever since they were created...You are quite savage, kicking a man when he's down!

Oh cry me a river. Coulda woulda shoulda. That was then, this is now. My comments were facts relevant to today's industry, not based on some attachment to the past.

Don't like your contract since 9/11? Did you vote "NO" on your concessionary TA(s)?

Did you write your congressman/union demanding your pension not be terminated?

Me kicking someone when they're down? Why don't you put the pipe down and try standing UP!

Yes, I'm SAVAGE!!!GRRRR!!!

 

[jmreii]

It took the airlines a long time to get in the mess that they are in, and it will take them a long time to clean up the mess. The problems have many factors other than we can take a pill and it's going to be all right. It is similar to an alcoholic telling everyone that they do not have a problem, okay whenever you get ready for help you let us know.

When the airfares were expensive and many people did not fly unless it was a special occasion; many of these U.S airlines had a small fleet of aircraft. Before deregulation you could add United, American, Delta, and Northwest fleets together and get 500 aircraft. After deregulation, it is close to 2000 aircraft not counting regional aircraft.

Many of your foreign carriers such as British Airways, and Air France have not change that much in fleet size despite their route systems. That is ironic.

Time is moving on better get with or it will soon be gone.

 

[pipejockey]

pipjock, site your source for SWA having over 50% market share, I can only find SWA at 26% as recent as 2006. Interestingly, USair has 38%...

Yes some of you caught me, I admit. I apparently was so riled up my mind didn't send the right signals to my fingers while typing. What I meant to say is that southworst has the largest domestic market share.