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What's happening at ERAU?

172driver

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What's going on at ERAU? I hear rumors of a new contract being negotiated. I also hear management is looking to hire off the streets rather than the furloughees. Just rumors? Interesting to see airline issues at a flight school. People at other websites seem plenty ready to cross the union to get a CFI job. What's the real deal?
 

ifly4food

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Don't know the scoop at ERAU, but I do know this:

It would be EXTREMELY UNWISE for anyone seeking future airline employment to scab the instructors at ERAU.

The ERAU instructors are members of The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, which is affiliated with the AFL-CIO. They are one of the most millitent unions out there (second only to the Teamsters) and would have no qualms about putting scabs on the international blackball lists.

It would be sad to see someone ruin their career before it even begins.
Always remember, pilots hire pilots.
 

SigTauPilot

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I attend school there and i havent heard of anything like that, are you talking about Daytona or Prescott Campus?
 

8sm

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Well said Brother Ifly4food

jmac777 good luck on your contract. It's better than what ERAU would have offered you without representation. Flight instructors are like school teachers, these employers can't operate without them, but dam them for not paying you what your're worth.
Get what you can while you can and stay focus on the light at the end of the tunnel.

Regards 8sm......from one of your friends in the industry a 20+yr IAM member
 

Eric

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Picket line

JMAC77 speaks the truth.

At the Lauderdale career fair, ERAU was there and my friend went to see if they would accept a resume. The guy (sorry, I don't have a name) asked him straight out, "Are you willing to cross a picket line?"

Kind of rubs you the wrong way when you get that as the first question out of a potential employer's mouth.

He was hired at FSI and won't be going to Riddle.
 

172driver

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Good luck. Keep us posted. Anywhere else we can find news on the contract? Why aren't more flight schools unionized? Did you guys have to find the union or did they find you?
 

172driver

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I have no idea...am not affiliated with ERAU...just been hearing about it. jmac might have a better idea. Are you guys negotiating a contract in Prescott? One thing I do know...I wouldn't cross the line.
 

Bluto

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Is ERAU PRC union?

When I left ERAU at Prescott, it was non-union. My understanding is that the DB campus instructors unionized due to, among many other things, shoddy work and pay rules. I believe the contract issues are at ERAU DB only. I will recommend that potential CFI's avoid crossing the picket line if it comes to that.
 

Beechnut

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I find it interesting that an organization that so closely affliates itself with the airline industry is looking to union busting tactics! Riddles reputation will be severly damaged if they try to scab pilots at an entry level position, and one that sets the tone for a pilot's career.

Also, those pilots that do cross the picket line need to be put at the top of the blacklist, even if it isn't an airline job. That kind of mentality needs to be squashed!

S.

Riddle Grad.


...another thought: How does Riddle expect donations from Alumni when most of those alumni that are pilots, belong to unions? Watch tuition jump again when Riddle has to make up for a loss of income from donations.

S.
 
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chperplt

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I understand that the union accepted the contract last night. Any truth to this??
 

slapstick

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good luck to Riddle from Purdue kids. We aren't unionized, in fact, the University cannot view us as anything more than a TA (teaching assistant), so we make the same as them... 7 bucks an hour. Fortunately, our chief CFI found a way around this, but it doesn't help a whole lot. The good part here is that every CFI/undergrad can instruct for Purdue.
 

bigD

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7 bucks an hour!? Jeebus - you guys need a union! Do you get breaks on tuition or anything? And if you bump into my ex girlfriend while on campus, tell her I say hi! :D

I can't believe Riddle is doing this crap. Good luck to all you Riddle instructors out there.
 

Timebuilder

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>>I find it interesting that an organization that so closely affliates itself with the airline industry is looking to union busting tactics! Riddles reputation will be severly damaged if they try to scab pilots at an entry level position, and one that sets the tone for a pilot's career.

It sounds to me as though Riddle is clearly aligning itself with the management side of the airline industry.

Perhaps pilots should begin to take this into account as they start their careers....
 

ShawnC

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Its not run by lawyers its just run by idiots. And I hear its the same over at Prescott, I talked to a couple of teachers from Prescott at Sun n Fun. Nothing but compliants, and its the same ones that we are having here.

Oh well thats why I'm not in the flight program. Just too much BS and money for me. I just can't condone paying Riddle $45/hr for a CFI that is luckey to get a third of that.

I pay my CFI off campus $29/hr, he gets $29/hr, much easier than the BS that other flight schools try and pull.
 

slapstick

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BigD,
No added benefits or tuition savings, just $7/hr. We are allowed to be a little gracious in recording our discussion time, which makes the checks slightly larger, but still pathetic. I liked teaching PU students in PU planes, and the convenience was nice, but I'm not a big fan of exploitation.

I left that BS, and for 2 years I've been driving 100 miles round-trip to instruct at another airport.
 

bobbysamd

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Riddle

<sigh> The more things change, the more they stay the same. I worked there twelve years ago.

Truthfully, though, Riddle-Prescott was the best aviation job I had. Decent pay if you could stay somewhat busy. Fair bonus plan. Decent benies. Good equipment and maintenance. Decent facilities, even in the old prefab housing flight line building. A great learning opportunity.

At times, these plusses were overshadowed by stupid politics, turf-protecting, agenda-promoting, and fear of losing 141 self-examining authority.

We had a few high-quality people, but, sadly, the "idiots" overshadowed them. It was too much to stand after a while.

I do remember one time that at the end of the spring semester it appeared there would be a low student load that summer. There was a rumor for days that there would be layoffs. Thankfully, it never happened, but it was a terrible thing to do to people who probably couldn't find another aviation job at that point in their careers. Borderline intimidation, in my .02 opinion.
 
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banned username 2

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ShawnC said:
I just can't condone paying Riddle $45/hr for a CFI that is luckey to get a third of that.

Back around 1990 American Flyers was charging $40.00 per hour just for an Instructor... The CFI's were making $6.00 per hour (that is 15% of the charged rate!)...

Back then the industry norm was charging $25.00 per hour and the CFI would make $12.50-$15.00 per hour....

It isn't just Riddle....


Originally posted by TimeBuilder
It sounds to me as though Riddle is clearly aligning itself with the management side of the airline industry.

Perhaps pilots should begin to take this into account as they start their careers....

That is kind of like saying "It looks like UAL & AA are aligning themselves with management, don't go work there!"

All these places (ERAU, American Flyers, UAL, AA, DAL, CAL, SWA, etc....) are there to make money, not to give pilots a place to make a career.... How we lose focus on the big picture... it's business, guys..... If they could do the job without Pilots, trust me they would... but "we" (pilots) are a necessary evil to the overall business plan...

And then you have moron's like that drunk America West crew that make us all look like a bunch of losers.... unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable.... what idiots!
 

Timebuilder

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>>That is kind of like saying "It looks like UAL & AA are aligning themselves with management, don't go work there!"

That isn't quite what I had in mind.

A university, such as ERAU, exists because of the tuition money paid by the STUDENT, who then becomes the INSTRUCTOR/EMPLOYEE. I would expect the university to reflect the interest of those who keep them in business, the student/alumni/instructor. To see the university willing to bite the hand that feeds it seems nonsensical. Are they so impressed with themselves that they feel they can act like the only game in town?

Airlines have customer and stockholder interests to balance against the interests of the pilot group. In the case of ERAU, they are essentially acting against their own alumni. What message does that send?
 

banned username 2

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Timebuilder said:
[IA university, such as ERAU, exists because of the tuition money paid by the STUDENT, who then becomes the INSTRUCTOR/EMPLOYEE. I would expect the university to reflect the interest of those who keep them in business, the student/alumni/instructor.


Actually only a small percentage of graduates return to work for ERAU... ERAU puts out probably near 1,500 CFI's per year but only need maybe 100 new CFI's every year...

They are in the business to make money.... I agree that ERAU should be paying some industry leading wages for a school that is as highly regarded as ERAU. I would guess that ERAU should be paying about $20-$22 per hour based on what they are charging...

I am merely saying that ERAU isn't the only one to do this... most flight schools don't pay squat, it is the nature of the business... and since CFI's are so plentiful, it is simple supply and demand economics...
 
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