Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

What's happening at AVANTAIR?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
CaptainJaguar said:
OOOH, do I smell Management bull sh*t? what's the deal with management and giving them selves away so easily? Well maybe you could enlighten us as to what the future of the company is?? I mean we know what you're going to get, but what about my pilot brothers and sister who are a dime a dozen apparently to SS? If pilots don't benefit out of all of this, then no one should either. All I know is that the pilots are the ones out there doing ALL the work. I talk to my friends and they tell me that besides being pilot, baggage handlers and flight attendant, they are sometimes "dispatchers, customer service reps" and many other things, while some people just pretty much sit on their arss and plan their weekly family vacations. It makes me sick :puke:
Click to expand...

So if your "friends" are so worried about things here why are they not on here? Why are you "speaking" for them? Just because I do not bad mouth the company that puts a paycheck in pocket it does not mean that I am involved with the "big evil management staff" that the select few complain about on here.
 
Point is, the powers that be clearly know about the "what-ifs" floating around, and they know a lot of employees are nervous aobut it. So why not say something other than "exciting news in the days ahead?" Number one rule in the military was, keep your men informed. Hearing 2nd hand that things appear not to be in panic mode isnt the same as (for example) "While details are classified to date, NBAA will allow a formal announcement for the companies future plans. We think everyone will like what they hear."
C'mon NBAA!!!
 
fivefootnuthin said:
Point is, the powers that be clearly know about the "what-ifs" floating around, and they know a lot of employees are nervous aobut it. So why not say something other than "exciting news in the days ahead?" Number one rule in the military was, keep your men informed. Hearing 2nd hand that things appear not to be in panic mode isnt the same as (for example) "While details are classified to date, NBAA will allow a formal announcement for the companies future plans. We think everyone will like what they hear."
C'mon NBAA!!!
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you. If someone called me and said," dude don't worry... this and that is happening, and we have these plans. I can't guarantee anything, but we are working hard at it." Then I would be a little bit more at peace
 
fivefootnuthin said:
Point is, the powers that be clearly know about the "what-ifs" floating around, and they know a lot of employees are nervous aobut it. So why not say something other than "exciting news in the days ahead?" Number one rule in the military was, keep your men informed. Hearing 2nd hand that things appear not to be in panic mode isnt the same as (for example) "While details are classified to date, NBAA will allow a formal announcement for the companies future plans. We think everyone will like what they hear."
C'mon NBAA!!!
Click to expand...

I certainly agree with this and with Hyper's post. The best way to encourage efficiency whether it's in fuel or cell phones is to share the information that makes the need clear. Rumors do no one any good. Nor does low morale. Smart managers know that and keep their people motivated and informed. As for putting a pilot into an awkward position of having the company card possibly refused, that is just wrong. Not to mention that line on the hotel bill that makes the pilot responsible. Expecting the company managers to give the pilots notice of changes that directly affect them is completely within reason and in no way should it be considered disloyal. Loyalty works both ways. What I'm hearing is dissatisfaction when it appears to be one-sided. I hope that things work out for the best. I have my fingers crossed for Avantair pilots :)

Offered with the empathy that was asked for,
Netjetwife
 
You know what they say...be careful what you wish for.....:p

It was easy to feel empathetic. No one likes being kept in the dark on issues that affect them so directly.
 
Have I missed a vote? Are congratulations in order? I wasn't aware that you had been elected the Spokesman for the pilots there....:rolleyes: Are you telling me that the other pilots aren't allowed a dissenting opinion?

I think all the pilots in the industry (and regionals, too) are contributing far more to their companies than they receive back. However the pilots achieve a fair/good written contract is up to them. Personally, I have my doubts that it can be done outside of a union. Feel free to prove me wrong, but last time we checked weren't the NJ pilots leading the industry in total compensation package and benefits? It's my opinion that the rest of you do the same type of job and therefore deserve the same return for your professional skills. Am I wrong?? :confused:
 
I guess you did miss the vote - you remember, the one where we received union cards and chose not to send them in (I heard 9 people did send them in). I openly welcome the opinion of our pilots I have yet to meet a pilot here who wants a union here. If we want a union we will colletively decide that based on our observations and experience and your crusade to increase your union numbers will have no bearing one it.

And who elected you spokesman for your husbands union?
 
NJB? I miss something? I can't figure this one out.
 
Not to jump in on this thread, but this really is all normal. No I am not management at Avant Air, I don't even work for a fractional operator anymore. But, I have been through all this before. Fractional is barely a profitable model in the first place. Now add the fact that you had a bad CEO, there really was no great direction then for you guys. So, yeah I am sure you are losing money and I am sure there are maintenance facilities not being paid. But Avant Air of all Fractional operators has the best chance to be very successful. Being that you have a great product and only one type of aircraft.

Someone will definitely jump in and take this company to new heights. Net Jets has been in the business for over 15 years and they are still not making money. They have never made a profit in operations, they make up for it in sales. But the outcome is still not profitable. They do say they will make a profit this year, but that is because of their sales. We will see if that actually happens. We all know FO has its problems as well, but one day they will get it under control. (may be a very long time)

Avant Air has the best shot at making some serious money. They just need a person who has great vision and can make it happen. Changes are on the way, Avant Air will be on the up and up. You are just going through a rough period right now, but it is no reason to jump ship. I do wish you all the best. Hang in there and don't listen to what everyone says. It only makes everything worse.
 
I had heard the pilots there who wanted a union weren't successful in their card drive. I'm also aware that the Options pilots had a rough start. I started talking to Avantair pilots earlier this year when some posting here seemed rather unhappy. Even if my support for their right to organize goes to the minority, it is still extended, and I'm aware that there is some interest.

I agree that the pilots should hang in there and ask the company rather than misjudge the situation based on info that might not be giving them the full picture.

The information about NJ that I post here is available on their board. I relay observations that many there share. Additionally, I post my own informed opinion that their situation has greatly improved with the leadership of a Strong Union. Consider it a frac-friendly attitude that I'd like to see the other frac families have the same type of contract and QOL.
 
ilm said:
Not to jump in on this thread, but this really is all normal. No I am not management at Avant Air, I don't even work for a fractional operator anymore. But, I have been through all this before. Fractional is barely a profitable model in the first place. Now add the fact that you had a bad CEO, there really was no great direction then for you guys. So, yeah I am sure you are losing money and I am sure there are maintenance facilities not being paid. But Avant Air of all Fractional operators has the best chance to be very successful. Being that you have a great product and only one type of aircraft.

Someone will definitely jump in and take this company to new heights. Net Jets has been in the business for over 15 years and they are still not making money. They have never made a profit in operations, they make up for it in sales. But the outcome is still not profitable. They do say they will make a profit this year, but that is because of their sales. We will see if that actually happens. We all know FO has its problems as well, but one day they will get it under control. (may be a very long time)

Avant Air has the best shot at making some serious money. They just need a person who has great vision and can make it happen. Changes are on the way, Avant Air will be on the up and up. You are just going through a rough period right now, but it is no reason to jump ship. I do wish you all the best. Hang in there and don't listen to what everyone says. It only makes everything worse.
Click to expand...


IF you used to work for them, than you would know it's not "Avant Air", it's actually "avantair"; lowercase and all.
 
ilm said:
Not to jump in on this thread, but this really is all normal. No I am not management at Avant Air, I don't even work for a fractional operator anymore. But, I have been through all this before. Fractional is barely a profitable model in the first place. Now add the fact that you had a bad CEO, there really was no great direction then for you guys. So, yeah I am sure you are losing money and I am sure there are maintenance facilities not being paid. But Avant Air of all Fractional operators has the best chance to be very successful. Being that you have a great product and only one type of aircraft.

Someone will definitely jump in and take this company to new heights. Net Jets has been in the business for over 15 years and they are still not making money. They have never made a profit in operations, they make up for it in sales. But the outcome is still not profitable. They do say they will make a profit this year, but that is because of their sales. We will see if that actually happens. We all know FO has its problems as well, but one day they will get it under control. (may be a very long time)

Avant Air has the best shot at making some serious money. They just need a person who has great vision and can make it happen. Changes are on the way, Avant Air will be on the up and up. You are just going through a rough period right now, but it is no reason to jump ship. I do wish you all the best. Hang in there and don't listen to what everyone says. It only makes everything worse.
Click to expand...

First of all dude, try and keep up, NJA is making money a quick search would have shown that.

Secondly why do you think "Avant Air" as you like to call them, has the best shot at making SERIOUS money?? Just because they fly one type of aircraft like SWA?? I call it a disadvantage. Or maybe it is because they are getting a new CEO, like that will help.

Thirdly, why do you think that FO will get their issues under control?? Do you know something a lot of us don't? Are they bring in a good management team or something else??

You post these wild predictions/statements without a thing to back them up.
 
Easy on him Puke ....spelling aside, ILM's post actually gave me something to look forward too! hahaa And he happens to be right, read a great series of articles about Fracs in general ...the general belief was that they dont make money from Ops, only sales ...which means they must grow or die on the vine. And we have to admit, the owners do love the P180! I do too...just wish the company wouldnt try making it out to be a mid-size jet (quote from an owner there actually)!

Two weeks to NBAA!!
 
Last edited:
fivefootnuthin said:
Easy on him Puke ....spelling aside, ILM's post actually gave me something to look forward too! hahaa And he happens to be right, read a great series of articles about Fracs in general ...the general belief was that they dont make money from Ops, only sales ...which means they must grow or die on the vine. And we have to admit, the owners do love the P180! I do too...just wish the company wouldnt try making it out to be a mid-size jet (quote from an owner there actually)!

Two weeks to NBAA!!
Click to expand...

So now we are name calling. Exellent! Now I have an idea of how to speak to you.

ILM is ignoring several issues; one, don't you think NJA has reached the size where it makes some money, not all some off of its Ops??? Read all the articles you want, try reading the Berkshire-Hathaway reports.

The owners may love the P180 good for them, how many times do you think they will want to cross the country in it?? As long as there are no jets on the property the growth potential is limited. It is turbo prop fast yes, not jet fast, not even close.
 
My bad ILM. My apologies, I read "I don't even work for THE fractional operator anymore" instead of A fractional operator.

They say your eyes get better with age......yea.
 
RNO, I WAS refering to P180, not name-calling ....and I agree an aircraft with an effective range of basically 1,000-1,200 nm in real world conditions does only allow for so much growth. But thats my point- flown within its realm, it does a great job and is efficient. And since we have 30 more coming and clearly no shortage of owners, isnt that growth?? Make no mistake, I'd love to see another type or two brought on, something that does allow us to mix it up with the big boys coast to coast. Until then, we're a regional fractional, not all that different fom the PC-12 place. But for now, I'll settle for growth we can bank on .....and some consistant professionalism with respect to how these planes are operated. If the company has its sights set on the "bigguns" (and I hope they do) they need to start carrying themselves accordingly with the "how to" stuff.
 
Instead of crying about this company go to NJA CS or FLEX.
 
love it or leave it, eh Hammer? How bout ...love it ....try to make it better through awareness and communication, even if its communicating like this.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom