Whats going on at Trans States?

[flyinsick]

I just talked to a recurrent F/O at TSA who failed his oral for a second time in a row. He said the first oral was his own fault, he just could not focus. He said the second oral went really well. But he still failed? I know this person and he is not one to blow smoke.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Well, too bad.

 

[Smarta$$]

Well, too bad.

Tool.

 

[rjacobs]

Tell them to use less teeth.

Haha, I kid. The only thing I can think of is maybe, and this is a big maybe, Hulas told instructors/check airmen to be extra hard on people so he could fire them and replace them with lower cost 1st year people. A buddy of mine over there thats a captain recently failed his recurrent PC because the instructor told him he was doing a 6/6/6 takeoff, so he briefs the whole thing and then they get to the runway and he can literally see the lights at the far end, not 6/6/6 so he launches, instructor says bust because the centerline lights were not on. My buddy says I can see the far end of the runway so it wasnt 6/6/6 and the instructor says, its a sim problem. BS is what I call. So he got a few weeks of vacation.

 

[flyinsick]

Well, too bad.

Hi, thanks for the help. I'm just worried about our fellow pilots. I hear many F/O's are failing out and a few captains. I wish them well, TSA is going through hard times right now.

 

[flyinsick]

Tell them to use less teeth.

Haha, I kid. The only thing I can think of is maybe, and this is a big maybe, Hulas told instructors/check airmen to be extra hard on people so he could fire them and replace them with lower cost 1st year people. A buddy of mine over there thats a captain recently failed his recurrent PC because the instructor told him he was doing a 6/6/6 takeoff, so he briefs the whole thing and then they get to the runway and he can literally see the lights at the far end, not 6/6/6 so he launches, instructor says bust because the centerline lights were not on. My buddy says I can see the far end of the runway so it wasnt 6/6/6 and the instructor says, its a sim problem. BS is what I call. So he got a few weeks of vacation.

Yeah, 6/6/6 is not the far end of the rwy. WOW that is weak.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

How can you fail a PC for that. That's called a debrief item. And don't you have a union?

 

[flyinsick]

How can you fail a PC for that. That's called a debrief item. And don't you have a union?

Everyone always says, "it has to be more than just that" But with TSA it has to be perfect. I helped this F/O study and he knows his stuff. He said he got all the memory items and limitations right. Very strong on systems and just had to look a few things up in the GOM and MEL. EX. RVSM- he know 75' of field elevation but had to look up the 50' between altimeters, Flight Att seat deferrl - who has to do that. APU fire ( memory item) but he got that, what he did not know was the instructor said the A/C is in Ground safe mode. So in order to blow the bottle - one must turn the batteries on first! What he should have said was memory item then go to the QRH. Performance problem he hot MAGTOW incorrect - but F/O's don't even do that on line. He added the burn to the wronge landing weight. And he did not know what the backup power button did on the captain's far left lower panel.

I saw the list of these thigs that he had written down with the examinor present. Does this seem like it should bust an oral?

-Worried, I have to go in for my Recurrent yet.

 

[flyinhigh6165]

This isnt really a surprise coming from TSA.....

 

[great cornholio]

Havent really heard of the training dept comming down on people lately. However that does happen everyonce in a while. People keep missing the same things for a few months and then the check airmen get all hardcore about that area. I know a few years ago they were really tough on the RVSM stuff because it was new. It sounds like that was enough to bust him for the oral. You said it was his second one right? What did he bust on the first one? The same type of questions? Maybe between the 2 orals the check airman just didnt feel like he had the knowledge needed to be out on the line. Even though FOs dont do the performance on the line they should still know how to do it. You do it every PC. And what happens if you capt is running late or is on the phone with mx control doing a DMI per telecon? If you know how to do some of the performance stuff then you can help the capt out by getting some of the paper work started.

Most people fail their first PC because they dont know what to expect. First of all you need to study before you go to recurrent. People think that recurrent will re-teach you what you learned in new hire class. Thats not gonna happen cause recurrent is too fast paced you wont really learn anything. Study the GOM and the Systems book. You will be asked questions from both. Also dig out your cockpit poster and make sure you know what every button in the cockpit does (especially at TSA). And of course you need to know you limitations and memory items cold. Also take some time to look over your profiles. Its been about a year since you've thought about those and they expect you to fly the profiles in the sim. If you do this you should have nothing to worry about.

Oh yeah in the sim. You should never ever ever be faster than 200 kts on you checkride. (except for you area departure on the way to do the airwork). Also remember if you mess something up you've got 2 TPs. They have to be 2 diff maneuvers. Also if you do mess something up just let it slide right off. If you get all nervous about it you are just gonna make the rest of the checkride harder on yourself.

 

[flyinsick]

Ok thanks, Not sure what he actually busted on his 1st oral. He said he just failed it flat out. But the second one he said went really well. But started out with that Mistake on MAGTOW - he said he added the burn to the actual landing weight and not the 42,549 Examinor said 1/2 way into the oral he was thinking about stopping it right after that mistake.

What a load of crap! Someone is doing well so the examinor has to throw that in there?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

This sounds ridiculous. I fly with guys who didn't learn that stuff from day one, and I have to correct them myself. Do you have the Astronaut program over there or what? We have the street sweeper program here. It works much better.

 

[flyinsick]

This sounds ridiculous. I fly with guys who didn't learn that stuff from day one, and I have to correct them myself. Do you have the Astronaut program over there or what? We have the street sweeper program here. It works much better.

Tell me about it. They are busting new- hires out like crazy now. I have to take my oral in Jan. I'm thinking about quitting before I have a 121 failure. If this person busts out of TSA he is not going to have an easy time trying to convince someone else to hire him.

 

[POKEY]

I don't think its all that unexpected that they are seeing an increase in busts given the experience level of the new hires right now. I know I would have had my hands full with a jet at 500hrs.

 

[snap145]

how can they afford to bust this many people out if theyre as shorthanded as everyone on here claims they are??

 

[flyinsick]

I don't think its all that unexpected that they are seeing an increase in busts given the experience level of the new hires right now. I know I would have had my hands full with a jet at 500hrs.

We did not have 500 hrs when I got hired on. They are going to lose some good people.

 

[inbound]

We did not have 500 hrs when I got hired on. They are going to lose some good people.

THEY HAVE ALREADY LOST ALLOT OF GOOD PEOPLE!!!!!

 

[VeeOne]

I talked to a guy that said the average wash out rate in initial training is as high as 50 percent right now........that's nuts! Unfortunately, the guy I talked to busted out of the sim portion but aced his oral. He is one of the sharpest pilots I have ever flown with (he was my SIC at a previous employer and one hell of a stick and rudder guy).

 

[inbound]

To bad the jet isn't about stick and rudder...... or should I say the Sim. You said he busted out of the Sim? I would say good for him, a blessing in disguise

 

[CaptainJaguar]

Well, too bad.

Nice picture you tool.

 

[flyinsick]

THEY HAVE ALREADY LOST ALLOT OF GOOD PEOPLE!!!!!

Yes, My fault. Many good people.

 

[ironspud]

I just talked to a recurrent F/O at TSA who failed his oral for a second time in a row. He said the first oral was his own fault, he just could not focus. He said the second oral went really well. But he still failed? I know this person and he is not one to blow smoke.

So, was Frank really right.....or not! Sometimes I just can't believe this cr*p.

 

[flyinsick]

So, was Frank really right.....or not! Sometimes I just can't believe this cr*p.

What is the story with Frank? I can't believe this either? Does anyone know the examiner he had? I'm trying not to name names. But I'm wondering if this examinor is just really tough.

 

[8AF]

So how bad does it look for someone to bust the first PC (pass the second attempt) in their future interviews?

 

[flyinsick]

So how bad does it look for someone to bust the first PC (pass the second attempt) in their future interviews?

I don't think it looks bad. once you have the 121 experience you are fairly competitive. If you were to bust out it would be a different story.

 

[ex j-41]

So how bad does it look for someone to bust the first PC (pass the second attempt) in their future interviews?

I was told i wouldn't get an interview at ______. Because i busted my initial oral at TSA. My fault. I admit that it was totally nerves. And thinking back i was nervous for a reason. Bust a checkride and say goodbye to a future job. That's a lot of pressure. Too much pressure for a Trans States job.

 

[flyinsick]

I was told i wouldn't get an interview at ______. Because i busted my initial oral at TSA. My fault. I admit that it was totally nerves. And thinking back i was nervous for a reason. Bust a checkride and say goodbye to a future job. That's a lot of pressure. Too much pressure for a Trans States job.

So what do you think? Leave TSA? Any idea why they are being so hard?

 

[great cornholio]

So what do you think? Leave TSA? Any idea why they are being so hard?

I might sound like a dick, but if you are gonna leave TSA leave for a good reason such as QOL, found a better job, etc. Dont leave just because you are scared to take you first PC check. People fail PCs at every airline. (granted TSA seems to have a some what higher rate) But whats gonna happen next year when you get to a new regional and you hear about somebody busting their ride a month before you are supposed to take your ride? Will you quit that company too?

PCs are nothing to be scared of. You will have at least one a year for the rest of your carreer. If your recurrent is in Jan then you should have started studying a few weeks ago. If you go into the PC ready and calm the check airman will see that and will let somethings slide. You dont have to get every question right in the oral. The most important thing is BE PREPARED. Also remember your checkride skills from when you were getting your ratings. Only answer the question. Dont just blab, cause you might dig yourself a hole. Anyways I hope this helps.

 

[D.sanchez]

I was told i wouldn't get an interview at ______. Because i busted my initial oral at TSA. My fault. I admit that it was totally nerves. And thinking back i was nervous for a reason. Bust a checkride and say goodbye to a future job. That's a lot of pressure. Too much pressure for a Trans States job.

What airline was ___________? Was it Ho-Jets? Seriously though... while it certainly sucks, I don't think busting an initial oral is a careeer stopper... Ask an expert like cheral cage or someone like her for help on things.... I personally know 2 guys who have crashed airplanes who were subsequently hired by airlines.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Treat people like animals, and they will leave. Cost goes down, profits go up. It's a great industry to be in.