What's going on at Compass Air?

[flap operator]

Well, if this bit of hiring at DL is true, this is good news for Mesaba as well. Maybe it'll slow our furloughing down and reverse the trend.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

it will be a cold day in hell before an hour of Compass block is cheaper than an hour of 9E block....keep dreamin...

Might want to fact check that, but if 9E wants to reduce costs, go for it.

CPS is a shell corporation that has minimal costs attached to it.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Well, if this bit of hiring at DL is true, this is good news for Mesaba as well. Maybe it'll slow our furloughing down and reverse the trend.

Well Maybe? It depends on how delta runs the classes. (If they Hire)

If they run a class of 20 once a month all the position would be compass until 25% of the compass list was gone in a rolling 12 months.

If they run a class of 40 twice a month still only 20 of those positions would be compass, some mesaba and some off the street.

It really just depends on how they would run classes if they do indeed end up hiring.

 

[Moustache]

Well Maybe? It depends on how delta runs the classes. (If they Hire)

If they run a class of 20 once a month all the position would be compass until 25% of the compass list was gone in a rolling 12 months.

If they run a class of 40 twice a month still only 20 of those positions would be compass, some mesaba and some off the street.

It really just depends on how they would run classes if they do indeed end up hiring.

Compass could only lose 80ish per rolling 12 months

 

[flap operator]

In all seriousness... Can CP even hande losing 20 captains a month and the hiring and upgrading that would need to happen to support that kind of attritian? Not to mention all the while keeping the operation running reliably. It just doesn't seem realistic.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

JUST TO clarify, not LOA's, LOR's

 

[ACL65PILOT]

In all seriousness... Can CP even hande losing 20 captains a month and the hiring and upgrading that would need to happen to support that kind of attritian? Not to mention all the while keeping the operation running reliably. It just doesn't seem realistic.

They could but it is very inefficient, and probably better just to include them in the DAL operation.

 

[pilotguy143]

They could but it is very inefficient, and probably better just to include them in the DAL operation.

I'm sure that no Compass pilot would complain!

 

[lowlycfi]

Too late for that, reference DAL MEC decision.

 

[comrcap]

CP kicked to the curb

Why did Moak kick CP to the curb? They didn't want a merged CP,CMR Mesaba, group tied to the NW/DAL MEC. Just a thought.

 

[DYLIN]

it will be a cold day in hell before an hour of Compass block is cheaper than an hour of 9E block....keep dreamin...

There is no way Pinnacle is as cheap as Compass, mostly due to employee longevity and the "shell" style of company organization ACL65 mentioned.

 

[JoeMerchant]

it will be a cold day in hell before an hour of Compass block is cheaper than an hour of 9E block....keep dreamin...

The most senior Compass 76 seat captain makes about the same as a junior ASA/CMR/PNCL/Mesaba 50 seat captain and has 2 weeks of vacation....

 

[SpauldingSmails]

In all seriousness... Can CP even hande losing 20 captains a month and the hiring and upgrading that would need to happen to support that kind of attritian? Not to mention all the while keeping the operation running reliably. It just doesn't seem realistic.

No, they can't really. That's why it would only result in a max. of about 80 (25% of the sen. list per the CBA) pilots a year from Compass.

That means a training pipeline that turns out an average of about 7 new pilots and 7 upgrades per month, hardly a feat, even for Compass. If Delta is going to start skimming pilots off the top of the Compass pool, then they just need to ramp up training slightly ahead of the expected hiring.

As someone mentioned before, Compass can hold you for an additional 90-days and just establish seniority at Delta. Worst case scenario you hold everyone back 3 months... and they can make up the difference to keep the airline staffed.

 

[flap operator]

Spaulding - thanks for proving my point. 80/yr = < 7/mo. Which is less than the 9 Mesaba can and will send during a flow. 9 is easily sustainable, given our training department and over staffed situation. The point is that the 20/mo was a shot in the dark by the nwa alpa negotiators and was completely unrealistic from the word go.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Spaulding - thanks for proving my point. 80/yr = < 7/mo. Which is less than the 9 Mesaba can and will send during a flow. 9 is easily sustainable, given our training department and over staffed situation. The point is that the 20/mo was a shot in the dark by the nwa alpa negotiators and was completely unrealistic from the word go.

That may be a valid point regarding the sustainable number of flow-ups from Compass.

Each flow arrangement, CP and XJ, would have advantages under different circumstances. It would depend on the class size, and anticipated duration of the hiring.

Even the negotiators recognized that you can't simply lose and re-train 20 pilots per month at a relatively small airline, I'm sure that's why the CBA has capped the flow-up of only 25% of the total list.

If a flow-up does happen, Delta will have to take the first 20 pilots of each month from Compass. I'd envision that the top 20 guys each month would be given their numbers, and delayed as allowed in the contract to slowly meter them out of Compass. But again, they do get to establish senority.

If Delta were to plan on large class sizes every month for a year(hiring 400 people or the sort), it could be 80 from CP, and 108 from XJ for the year, with the remainder being "street hires".

If Delta were to hire less, say 160 pilots for a calendar year, it would depend on the class sizes per month. If the class sizes were 20 people per month, it would be 80 CP pilots occupying the first 4 classes, followed by 4 classes occupied by 36 XJ pilots mixed with 44 "street hires".

Different scenarios will yield different results.

 

[generaltso]

I have my doubts that anyone will ever flow up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the flow through go away. Delta pilots, and the company, are pretty particular about who joins the pilot group. People that flow don't even need to do an interview, correct? I know there are many good people at Compass, and many furloughees from other airlines there... but I have my doubts it will ever happen without an interview.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I have my doubts that anyone will ever flow up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the flow through go away. Delta pilots, and the company, are pretty particular about who joins the pilot group. People that flow don't even need to do an interview, correct? I know there are many good people at Compass, and many furloughees from other airlines there... but I have my doubts it will ever happen without an interview.

With previous flows in mind, you are correct. However, the CPZ flow was negotiated and signed with those previous mistakes in mind.

There are severe penalties if the flow is cancelled or not honored...

 

[pilotguy143]

I have my doubts that anyone will ever flow up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the flow through go away. Delta pilots, and the company, are pretty particular about who joins the pilot group. People that flow don't even need to do an interview, correct? I know there are many good people at Compass, and many furloughees from other airlines there... but I have my doubts it will ever happen without an interview.

You do know that the Compass interview is a 3 on 1, just like Delta. Also, there is a retired NWA (delta) pilot on the interview board. That essentially gives the pilot group a way to say no, if they don't like someone

 

[Ridgeback]

I have my doubts that anyone will ever flow up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the flow through go away. Delta pilots, and the company, are pretty particular about who joins the pilot group. People that flow don't even need to do an interview, correct? I know there are many good people at Compass, and many furloughees from other airlines there... but I have my doubts it will ever happen without an interview.

Allready happened. There are 12 pilots from mesaba that went to NWA and hence are now on the Delta senority list. Also there are 12 very senior seats waiting for a delta pilot to get if/when a furlough happens.

 

[TommyG]

The word is that there is a medical before issuing an employment badge as well. (Smells like Delta)