What would it take to fix this industry?

[John C. Holmes]

What would it take to fix this industry?


Seems like the industry I wanted to be a part of growing up packed it's $hit up and left. Any thoughts?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Fix it for whome?

Management and the stockholders? or Labor?

Because there is no solution that will improve the industry for both.

 

[av8er2]

Get a mgt. that is like Southwest or similar to companies outside of the airlines who realize that the employee is what really makes a company great.

Without happy workers who are the backbone of the company you will not have happy passengers and an efficient safe operation.

But why would the best and the brightest come to a company like ASA when they can work for a company that has much larger profit margins and a better future unlike the airlines.

The arilines are really going down the toliet fast. I feel the safety record is next. At the pay they are wanting they will not get the best pilots and the best and brightest are currently being encouraged to not learn to fly.

If I had a kid wanting to fly now I would not let him or her. I would make them get an education outside of aviation. Right now is a great opportunity for the less qualified to become an airline pilot.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

What would it take to fix this industry.

Easy. Stop taking airline pilot jobs that only pay 20,000 per year.
At least that would be a start.

Fix it for whome?
Management and the stockholders? or Labor?
Because there is no solution that will improve the industry for both.

Fix it for the pilots, of course, silly. Screw mgmt. I'd like to show those beancounters who really runs these airlines..and it ain't mgmt.

Get a mgt. that is like Southwest or similar to companies outside of the airlines who realize that the employee is what really makes a company great.

Without happy workers who are the backbone of the company you will not have happy passengers and an efficient safe operation.

But why would the best and the brightest come to a company like ASA when they can work for a company that has much larger profit margins and a better future unlike the airlines.

The arilines are really going down the toliet fast. I feel the safety record is next. At the pay they are wanting they will not get the best pilots and the best and brightest are currently being encouraged to not learn to fly.

If I had a kid wanting to fly now I would not let him or her. I would make them get an education outside of aviation. Right now is a great opportunity for the less qualified to become an airline pilot.

Oh I totally agree. I've already discouraged my children from aviation (as a profession).
Southwest's mgmt is one in a million. The passengers can tell when the employees are happy.
Ever fly on ASA? Geeze, from the monotone drab tone of the pilots voice over the PA during flight proves how miserable the employees are. I just wish the people over there would simply quit instead of waiting around year after year after year for a better contract. I quit ASA when I'd had enough. I didn't even have a new flying job to go to. I guess some pilots aren't that upset over making 20,000/year and being treated like dirt. I sure wasn't willing to just settle.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Re-regulation or else the supply/demand structure needs to truly be one. Problem is struggling airlines are allowed to struggle at a much lower cost basis due to existing bankruptcy laws (even after the new changes occurred this year), which then forces all other airlines to lower their costs. Also keeps capacity in the industry furthering cutthroat competition where it's difficult to actually cut an airline to lower supply. Blame also General Electric and other creditors along with aircraft manufactures who don't want to see any airline cease and desist.

Further, specific to airlines, pilots need to actually strike and walk away from a bad deal. If not that choice, at least recogonize a bad deal and do whatever it takes to let the shareholders of that airline know that their airline is a terrible investment due to unhappy employees. Unhappy employees should theoretically produce a bad service. Hint, hint Mesa.

Finally, the masses of perspective pilots need to understand that flying is not the ultimate dream job (lower supply of pilots). The only ones who feel that way generally are guys that worked hard in a different career, built up their financal portfolios and then scooted over to the regional airlines after age 30 or so with the ability to afford to live easily off the low pathetic wages paid out. Even then, the glory of the career is likely to ware out over time. These aviation universities and other flight schools that are selling this dream to young adults fail to mention how a $100,000 or even $50,000 is an extremely large amount to pay back in loans when this career pays so little. Also, the days away from home, working holidays many times completely away from home, low pay and the vast challenges of achieving better contract conditions, and many other stresses of the career are conviently left out of the many, many deceptive ads in Flying magazine and the likes.

 

[miles otoole]

Get a mgt. that is like Southwest or similar to companies outside of the airlines who realize that the employee is what really makes a company great.

Not sure it's that easy. Do you think if the entire management team from WN was placed at AAA, AWA, DAL, et al. in 2000, that the morale would be any different than it is today?

 

[ex j-41]

ASA $19/hr to start

Hey Midnight Flyer

Easy. Stop taking airline pilot jobs that only pay 20,000 per year.
At least that would be a start.

ASA starts out at $19/hr. I guess you just skipped first year pay? Went
on to Captain right away? Is it OK for you to start your career but not
for someone else? It was the MEC that siad that these wages were
acceptable. They negotiated these pay scales and that is that.
Now everyone who gets hired has no choice in the matter.
You are just as guilty pal. Sorry!

 

[FN FAL]

What would it take to fix this industry? Any thoughts?

Yea, raise minimum wage or work longer hours.

Information on the FLSA

General Information on the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)

Federal Minimum Wage:

• $4.75 per hour beginning October 1, 1996
• $5.15 per hour beginning September 1, 1997

Employees under 20 years of age may be paid $4.25 per hour during their first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer.

Certain full-time students, student learners, apprentices, and workers with disabilities may be paid less than the minimum wage under special certificates issued by the Department of Labor.

Tip Credit: Employers of "tipped employees" must pay a cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit against their minimum wage obligation. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Certain other conditions must also be met.

Overtime Pay: At least 1½ times an employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked over 40 in a workweek.

Child Labor: An employee must be at least 16 years old to work in most non-farm jobs and at least 18 to work in non-farm jobs declared hazardous by the Secretary of Labor. Youths 14 and 15 years old may work outside school hours in various non-manufacturing, non-mining, non-hazardous jobs under the following conditions:

No more than -

• 3 hours on a school day or 18 hours in a school week;
• 8 hours on a non-school day or 40 hours in a non-school week.

Also, work may not begin before 7 a.m. or end after 7 p.m., except from June 1 through Labor Day, when evening hours are extended to 9 p.m. Different rules apply in agricultural employment.

ENFORCEMENT: The Department of Labor may recover back wages, either administratively or through court action, for the employees that have been underpaid in violation of the law. Violations may result in civil or criminal action.

Fines of up to $11,000 per violation may be assessed against employers who violate the child labor provisions of the law and up to $1,100 per violation against employers who willfully or repeatedly violate the minimum wage or overtime pay provisions. This law prohibits discriminating against or discharging workers who file a complaint or participate in any proceedings under the Act.

Note:

• Certain occupations and establishments are exempt from the minimum wage and/or overtime pay provisions.
• Special provisions apply to workers in American Samoa.
• Where state law requires a higher minimum wage, the higher standard applies.

FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, contact the nearest Wage and Hour Division office -- listed in most telephone directories under United States Government, Labor Department.

 

[pilotyip]

Too many negative vibes, this is still a great career where else can high school grad have shot at making $100K/yr by the time they are in thier mid 30's. Last I checked $100K is in the upper 10% of wages in the United States.
One last question if the SWA managment had come into UAL in 2000 and cut wages to the SWA level to ensure profitability, would the pilot morale at UAL have improved?

 

[belchfire]

One thing that needs to be fixed is something that
should be fixed in all US big businesses-the elimination
of "Golden Parachutes". It is my personal opinion that
no member of any management team should have a
base salery that is higher than the most senior hourly
employee; They would get a higher profit sharing
percentage and bonuses based on performance of
the company. Time was that that the owners paid
themselves last. As long as they keep paying
themselves the most first and get these massive
"severance packages" regardless of their performance
there is no incentive to take care of the people that
make the thing run on a day-to-day basis or the
business as a whole. They get to take their millions
and run regardless.

As for this industry we need a massive reduction of
seats avalible and force the people that still need to
fly to pay a price for that seat which will generate
a positive cash flow for the airlines. That and some
honorable people running the airlines would solve
every ill there is in the business...

It's that fracking simple...
You can rest assured that it will never happen.