What We Need Here Is.....

[Scoot 11]

Another SW vs. DL thread

Ok, I'll start.
You trolls at sw have no international flying and had to buy your jobs...
Cue Red, Wave, Howard, And General in 5...4..3..2..

 

[scarlet]

Int flying is the best thing in the world?

3 days worth less than 16 hours. to most of europe.
Hotel rooms not ready when you get to the hotel, because the crew before you just left the hotel. And its 4:00 AM your time. 9:30-10:00 AM local time. Just hang out in the lobby. FUN
Money Exchanging
Fatigue

Some good points, but its not all glamore. Some folks like it, some don't. You can have it GL. Not interested. I hate any flights longer than 2.0 hours.

 

[redflyer65]

Yea, I saw those 4 days trips worth 21. No thanks is right. Nothing like being gone on a trip and not being paid well. DL pilots need another 20% payraise just to make it worth while.

How's that Scoot?

 

[General Lee]

Int flying is the best thing in the world?

3 days worth less than 16 hours. to most of europe.
Hotel rooms not ready when you get to the hotel, because the crew before you just left the hotel. And its 4:00 AM your time. 9:30-10:00 AM local time. Just hang out in the lobby. FUN
Money Exchanging
Fatigue

Some good points, but its not all glamore. Some folks like it, some don't. You can have it GL. Not interested. I hate any flights longer than 2.0 hours.

The good thing is if you don't like flights over 2 hours, you could bid the 717 or MD88 and do shorter hops. When you tire of that, and most people eventually do, the name of the game is fewer legs. On 737 and larger domestic, there are 4 leg 4 day trips for people senior in category. If you want even longer legs, then you go for the widebodies, which there are 5 choices---7ER, A330, 767-400 (we call it 765), 777, and 744. All do different missions. The 7ER does both domestic and INTL. The A330 does mainly 3 day trips, 6 days, and up to 12, which is a commuter's dream. (A 12 day trip can have one commute a month, and 18 or more days off after that, up to 35 days off if the next 12 day trip is at the end of the next month). The 767-400 mainly does London Heathrow and Frankfurt from ATL, with a couple down South also, and the longest trip is a 6 day LHR/FRA with a MSP or DTW in the middle, and the most senior being a 3 day Munich trip worth about 20 hours. The 777 does 3 day trips worth up to 28 hours from DTW (Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing), and some high time 3 days from ATL (Dubai and Johanesberg), but also a 6 day trip via MSP to Tokyo and onto either Hong Kong or Singapore, and back to Narita and MSP/ATL. The 744 does a lot of pacific crossings and more 12 day trips, but also hits Tel Aviv from JFK.


If you don't like those, you can always bid 717, MD88/90, A320, 737, or 757/767 for domestic. It's called variety, and as you get older its good to have it, rather than not have it. And 2 hour flights are nice, but getting off your rear and sleeping in a lie flat bunk or going back to First class and eating a nice meal while watching a recent first run movie is goooooood. You are gone a few days anyway, why not enjoy the ride to an interesting destination to have a great meal with the crew? If you tire of that, domestic is one bid away. Choice is good.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Yea, I saw those 4 days trips worth 21. No thanks is right. Nothing like being gone on a trip and not being paid well. DL pilots need another 20% payraise just to make it worth while.

How's that Scoot?

21 hour 4 day trips (without an allnighter attached at end) is the minimum. Not all 4 day domestic trips are worth 21 hours. If you fly fewer than 5:15 per day in total, you get 21 hours. There are 4 days worth more, I've seen them worth around 25 hours. Certain FNWA bases still have 5 day domestic trips that are worth close to 30 hours. Then you throw in a widebody INTL trip and the productivity goes straight up. 6 and 7 day trips worth up to 40 hours or more. I saw an 8 day Pacific trip with multiple crossings worth 54 hours. That is really good. Plus, INTL categories can fly up to 120 hours a month if you pick up time (still 1000 per year flying, but then add vacation and sick time used, and you might see well over 1000 hours of pay).

Sorry Red, but variety wins here. Widebody pay has passed your 737 pay and the rest is gaining. Please keep the bar coming up during your next round of negotiations, and hopefully your union didn't have to promise anything for the SLI help during your merger. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Scoot 11]

Yea, I saw those 4 days trips worth 21. No thanks is right. Nothing like being gone on a trip and not being paid well. DL pilots need another 20% payraise just to make it worth while.

How's that Scoot?

Not bad...I'm just waiting on wave to call me a "sellout', an I think we might be in to something.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Why do I need to go to the garage when all the tools are on here?

 

[get2flyin]

Why? In the name of all that is holy....WHY?!

 

[fletch717]

Some more fuel to the fire.... If SWA hadn't bought AT they would be about as close to going international now as they were in 1982.

 

[redflyer65]

Not bad...I'm just waiting on wave to call me a "sellout', an I think we might be in to something.

If you voted 'yes', then you might be a sellout.

I'll let Wave make the final call.

 

[DTW320]

Don't forget that 3-day Europe trip (majority worth between 18:30 and 2000) reports mid afternoon on day 1, some as late as 1800 + and returns on day 3 usually by 1530 and some as early as 1230. Time away from base usually less than 48+00. I'll take it over a 3 day domestic, with 0600 report day 1 and 2030 finish on day 3, anytime..even if I didn't mind the 3 or 4+ legs a day, with all the a/c swaps and bag drags (at least at DAL).

And "money exchanging"?? Haven't seen anyone do that in years. ATM or credit card is easier and a lot cheaper...

 

[Ty Webb]

Don't forget that 3-day Europe trip (majority worth between 18:30 and 2000) reports mid afternoon on day 1, some as late as 1800 + and returns on day 3 usually by 1530 and some as early as 1230. Time away from base usually less than 48+00. I'll take it over a 3 day domestic, with 0600 report day 1 and 2030 finish on day 3, anytime..even if I didn't mind the 3 or 4+ legs a day, with all the a/c swaps and bag drags (at least at DAL).

Yup.

And "money exchanging"?? Haven't seen anyone do that in years. ATM or credit card is easier and a lot cheaper...

Yeah, I got a chuckle from that one, too.

 

[Ops check good]

Delta is the better airline because they allow regional feed. I cant wait to see some 50-70 seaters painted Southwest colors! Blurple will look great on an RJ :beer:

 

[canyonblue]

Some more fuel to the fire.... If SWA hadn't bought AT they would be about as close to going international now as they were in 1982.

SWA bought AT

At least you've gotten to the last stage: ACCEPTANCE & HOPE

1982

SWA was still closer to flying international than AirTran in 1982, heck, even 1992. :laugh:

 

[canyonblue]

Sorry Red, but variety wins here.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Everybody wins at Delta, except the shareholders and vendors. Bankruptcy, what a crock.uke:

 

[redflyer65]

Widebody pay has passed your 737 pay

Bye Bye---General Lee

You know General, the funny thing is....it hasn't.

Unless you are really senior and get the top 5% of the trips, the pay while being gone is not good. You can have a payrate that's higher than ours, but the lack of productivity in your lines equates to making less. What happened to your rigs? Did they get gutted in bankruptcy?

Our min days are 6.5, your's seems to be around 5.

 

[dalad]

You know General, the funny thing is....it hasn't.

Unless you are really senior and get the top 5% of the trips, the pay while being gone is not good. You can have a payrate that's higher than ours, but the lack of productivity in your lines equates to making less. What happened to your rigs? Did they get gutted in bankruptcy?

Our min days are 6.5, your's seems to be around 5.

Uh wrong there Red boy, I have grossed just over 120k so far this year with an average of 15 days off. Three paychecks to go to mid year and am e pecting over 150k on June 30th. That includes five double pay trips. I do a lot of island turns that are half deadhead but give me 9+ hours for the day. I am about 3200 seniority too. My credit for this month is already at 117 hours with 68 block. I also have the last seven days off making me prime for another double time pick up.

 

[Scoot 11]

Uh wrong there Red boy, I have grossed just over 120k so far this year with an average of 15 days off. Three paychecks to go to mid year and am e pecting over 150k on June 30th. That includes five double pay trips. I do a lot of island turns that are half deadhead but give me 9+ hours for the day. I am about 3200 seniority too. My credit for this month is already at 117 hours with 68 block. I also have the last seven days off making me prime for another double time pick up.

Shhhh. Let them talk. They just continue to show their true ignorance and stupidity. It's quite comical. Just look at how many threads have turned into a DL vs. SW.

 

[Dornier 335]

Shhhh. Let them talk. They just continue to show their true ignorance and stupidity. It's quite comical. Just look at how many threads have turned into a DL vs. SW.

WTF is this? Scoot 11's love fest is alive and well and my USAIR/USAPA threads that I crafted with tender loving care do not survive past day two? I am deeply offended! Mods, PETA, NAMBLA where are you? (scream, yell, sob)*

*Congrats Scoot 11, you seem to have more luck than me. Good job!

 

[Mach 80]

""""Hotel rooms not ready when you get to the hotel, because the crew before you just left the hotel."""

Do like we used to do when that happened -- go to the couches in the lobby, take off your shoes and socks, loosen the top 3 buttons on your shirt, unbutton your belt and pants, stretch out on the couches and with a yawn tell them to let you know when the rooms were ready. Won't take long if in a 5 Star hotel.

 

[OHGOON]

""""Hotel rooms not ready when you get to the hotel, because the crew before you just left the hotel."""

Do like we used to do when that happened -- go to the couches in the lobby, take off your shoes and socks, loosen the top 3 buttons on your shirt, unbutton your belt and pants, stretch out on the couches and with a yawn tell them to let you know when the rooms were ready. Won't take long if in a 5 Star hotel.

:beer:

 

[Scoot 11]

WTF is this? Scoot 11's love fest is alive and well and my USAIR/USAPA threads that I crafted with tender loving care do not survive past day two? I am deeply offended! Mods, PETA, NAMBLA where are you? (scream, yell, sob)*

*Congrats Scoot 11, you seem to have more luck than me. Good job!

I'm sorry did you say something. I can't take my eyes off your avatar!

 

[redflyer65]

Uh wrong there Red boy, I have grossed just over 120k so far this year with an average of 15 days off. Three paychecks to go to mid year and am e pecting over 150k on June 30th. That includes five double pay trips. I do a lot of island turns that are half deadhead but give me 9+ hours for the day. I am about 3200 seniority too. My credit for this month is already at 117 hours with 68 block. I also have the last seven days off making me prime for another double time pick up.

Your not understanding my arguement Dalad.

We have guys that work there schedules with CA's making over 400k for the year. Is that the normal? No. Why would I even want to talk about a small sub-base of guys that are knocking it out of the park to make a point?

I'm talking about the credit that a regular line flying guy in the middle of the pack does. I guy that doesn't have to work his schedule on the computer everyday to find the next premium trip.

When you compare the credit per day, it looks like Delta is behind the curve. I've seen the Delta vs. SW lines.

There is premium pay at both companies...that's not what I'm talking about.

 

[General Lee]

Your not understanding my arguement Dalad.

We have guys that work there schedules with CA's making over 400k for the year. Is that the normal? No. Why would I even want to talk about a small sub-base of guys that are knocking it out of the park to make a point?

I'm talking about the credit that a regular line flying guy in the middle of the pack does. I guy that doesn't have to work his schedule on the computer everyday to find the next premium trip.

When you compare the credit per day, it looks like Delta is behind the curve. I've seen the Delta vs. SW lines.

There is premium pay at both companies...that's not what I'm talking about.

Red,

DL did cut capacity somewhat, and flying opportunities go down in the Winter months. But that isn't the case in the Spring and Summer, and what happens when huge retirements start? You guys stay steady with about 150 guys a year leaving coming up here, while the legacies will all have huge blocks of people leaving. At DL there will be 4 years in a row that average over 800 pilots leaving at 65(many could go earlier). That will be called "Greenslip City." Even senior guys on the 717 will just bid with line check guys that will be giving constant IOEs to newhires, they will get paid for the trip, and can go pick up another on top of it. And that will go on for years because that will be the junior plane.

For you guys one guy retires, one FO moves up, and one guy is hired. Not the same at a legacy. And retirements mean upward movement on bigger planes that pay more, or just staying put to get senior and grab Greenslips. Productivity of lines will jump up, or number of Greenslips, which is key to making big bucks, and having 4000 pilots leave in 5 years will help. (2020-2024, with an increase each year up to those huge numbers starting next year)

Here are the retirement numbers from APC:

Mandatory retirements:
2013 - 56
2014 - 121
2015 - 169
2016 - 225
2017 - 286
2018 - 415
2019 - 513
2020 - 602
2021 - 789
2022 - 851
2023 - 809
2024 - 805
2025 - 713
2026 - 610
2027 - 514



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Red,

DL did cut capacity somewhat, and flying opportunities go down in the Winter months. But that isn't the case in the Spring and Summer, and what happens when huge retirements start? You guys stay steady with about 150 guys a year leaving coming up here, while the legacies will all have huge blocks of people leaving. At DL there will be 4 years in a row that average over 800 pilots leaving at 65(many could go earlier). That will be called "Greenslip City." Even senior guys on the 717 will just bid with line check guys that will be giving constant IOEs to newhires, they will get paid for the trip, and can go pick up another on top of it. And that will go on for years because that will be the junior plane.

For you guys one guy retires, one FO moves up, and one guy is hired. Not the same at a legacy. And retirements mean upward movement on bigger planes that pay more, or just staying put to get senior and grab Greenslips. Productivity of lines will jump up, or number of Greenslips, which is key to making big bucks, and having 4000 pilots leave in 5 years will help. (2020-2024, with an increase each year up to those huge numbers starting next year)

Here are the retirement numbers from APC:

Mandatory retirements:
2013 - 56
2014 - 121
2015 - 169
2016 - 225
2017 - 286
2018 - 415
2019 - 513
2020 - 602
2021 - 789
2022 - 851
2023 - 809
2024 - 805
2025 - 713
2026 - 610
2027 - 514



Bye Bye---General Lee

General,

Did you fail comprehension in High School?


Show me where I was arguing about retirements.


My arguement is...

Min Day....SW - 6.5
DL - 5ish

 

[General Lee]

General,

Did you fail comprehension in High School?


Show me where I was arguing about retirements.


My arguement is...

Min Day....SW - 6.5
DL - 5ish

Red, that's great. Not every trip at DL is 5ish per day, that is a minimum. You know that, come on! There may be some 21 hour 4 day trips, and there might be some 15:45 3 day trips, but there are also 82 hour 12 day trips, 28 hour 3 day trips, and 9 hour turns to the Caribbean that Dalad flies from JFK. It's called variety Red, look it up. The retirements are just icing on the eventual cake. When they get short on pilots, green flows, and that is something you may lack.

If you fail to comprehend the above, read it again. Big picture Red, and you will figure it out eventually, maybe on a lonely Amarillo layover.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flyer1015]

Is there really a point to this thread?

redflyer, SWA was the place to be years ago, well before the AirTran purchase. Today, given a choice between SWA or Delta, Delta is the easy win / no brainer.

 

[wms]

What we need here is...
http://vimeo.com/m/39387904
...more cowbell!!!

 

[redflyer65]

redflyer, SWA was the place to be years ago, well before the AirTran purchase. Today, given a choice between SWA or Delta, Delta is the easy win / no brainer.

Thanks for the insight Flyer. How does that change the fact that DL isn't as productive on a daily basis?

PS - I agree DL will be a good place over the years, but what happened to the rig? A 21hr 4 day? Amazing.

 

[General Lee]

Thanks for the insight Flyer. How does that change the fact that DL isn't as productive on a daily basis?

PS - I agree DL will be a good place over the years, but what happened to the rig? A 21hr 4 day? Amazing.

Red, not every 4 day equals 21 hours. That's a minimum unless the fourth day ends with an allnighter. Many 4 days are worth more. A 4 day INTL trip may be worth a lot more than a 4 day domestic, too.


Bye Bye---General Lee