What was the Deal with Indy Center Last Night?

[100-1/2]

Anyone else sense a more adversarial and less accommodating (more proactive 'do what i say') deviations dealing with that Crazy line of weather along the Ohio River Friday Night?

It seems there has been a significant shift toward stressing (rather than suggesting) deviations based on what they 'see' on the ground over what our radar depicts live and in the cockpit.

Any ideas where this hostility is originating? There is less traffic than in years past and yet they seem more inclined to adhere to arrival and departure corridors and 'directive' to how we conduct those operations (ie crossing restrictions and descents directly into convective weather below rather than classic 'slam-dunks'. Actually heard a SWA @ FL400 get a bit heated in one sector that presumably wanted their strip off his table.

Used to be we could request a hold, but now they just use that against us with EFC's: NEVER/BACK OF THE LINE?

Is it connected to this 'deputization' of controllers with regard to potential violations/deviations?

100-1/2

 

[Whine Lover]

Have you ever spent time with anyone from Indiana?

A great group of people....But, you have to understand their mindset, thinking, and ( ahem ) logic.

To gain a better grasp of that, some suggestions:

- Watch "Green Acres" and observe the thinking of Mr. Haney, Jeb, Arnold The Pig and his Owner, and others. Very telling, as the series was set in Indiana.

- Observe the character "Woody" on Cheers. He is based upon Indiana thought processes, and is spot on.


They do have more than just corn in Indiana, why, I believe they invented the popular Mid-Western game "Corn-Hole".

As well, they invented a race to nowhere, where you drive really fast in circles for several hours on end, for 500 miles.....

Wait, that sounds a lot like what this Industry has become. (?)

But, I digress...

Either embrace the System as it stands - OR - Perhaps just dim the screens, turn off the radios, and announce "Were not going to (insert destination here ).

There are ALWAYS options.



YKW

 

[ableone]

Never "ask" for a deviation.

"Tell" them you are deviating.

 

[Tripower455]

All part of Marion Blakey's master plan of dumbing down the ATC system.

 

[waveflyer]

Never let ATC fly your plane. They're there for you

 

[AA717driver]

Have you ever spent time with anyone from Indiana?

A great group of people....But, you have to understand their mindset, thinking, and ( ahem ) logic.

To gain a better grasp of that, some suggestions:

- Watch "Green Acres" and observe the thinking of Mr. Haney, Jeb, Arnold The Pig and his Owner, and others. Very telling, as the series was set in Indiana.

- Observe the character "Woody" on Cheers. He is based upon Indiana thought processes, and is spot on.


They do have more than just corn in Indiana, why, I believe they invented the popular Mid-Western game "Corn-Hole".

As well, they invented a race to nowhere, where you drive really fast in circles for several hours on end, for 500 miles.....

Wait, that sounds a lot like what this Industry has become. (?)

But, I digress...

Either embrace the System as it stands - OR - Perhaps just dim the screens, turn off the radios, and announce "Were not going to (insert destination here ).

There are ALWAYS options.



YKW

Given that many of the controllers in ZID are from other states, your "observation" is suspect, if quaint.

Hoosiers are far more diverse in their thinking than those on the coasts.

TC

 

[charlie2]

Given that many of the controllers in ZID are from other states, your "observation" is suspect, if quaint.

Hoosiers are far more diverse in their thinking than those on the coasts.

TC

Oh Ya? What about when Woody asked Diane to "not tell his mother" and Diane responded with "Mums the word" and then Woody repeated his request with "OK please don't tell my Mum." That's pretty diverse in thinking.

 

[labbats]

Makin' your way in the sky today takes everything you've got.

Getting a turn of 10 degrees sure would help a lot.

 

[Whine Lover]

makin' your way in the sky today takes everything you've got.

Getting a turn of 10 degrees sure would help a lot.

perfect!

Bravo!

 

[Whine Lover]

Given that many of the controllers in ZID are from other states, your "observation" is suspect, if quaint.

Hoosiers are far more diverse in their thinking than those on the coasts.

TC

Ever seen the Stepford Wives ?

Move to Indiana and watch what happens to you.

Very soon, you will have gone native.

I'm not sayin' that's a bad thing..

 

[Daddy]

Controllers everywhere are continually being dumbed down. As they retire, the experienced, situationally-aware controllers are being replaced with inexperienced controllers who do not understand that the screen in front of them represents actual airplanes that have limits and cannot go from 30K feet to 20K feet in 3 miles and at 200kts. They are not bad people, they are just getting in over their heads and getting overwhelmed sometimes. I see it everywhere...not just in Indiana. Prior posters are right...just fly your airplane where you need to and advise them or say 'unable' when they screw it up. It's not that big of a deal...the sky is big and airplanes are small and we all have TCAS these days. Just do what you got to do and let them know when you do and be nice and professional. We are on a higher professional tier and we need to act that way.

 

[SKC]

Makin' your way in the sky today takes everything you've got.

Getting a turn of 10 degrees sure would help a lot.

Wouldn't you like to climb away?

Sometimes you wanna go
Where A-T-C can't call your name

Go direct and no de-lay

You wanna be where you can see
the traffic's not all insane

You wanna go where A-T-C can't call your name

 

[Daddy]

Hilarious

 

[2ndGenPSA]

Controllers everywhere are continually being dumbed down. As they retire, the experienced, situationally-aware controllers are being replaced with inexperienced controllers who do not understand that the screen in front of them represents actual airplanes that have limits and cannot go from 30K feet to 20K feet in 3 miles and at 200kts. They are not bad people, they are just getting in over their heads and getting overwhelmed sometimes. I see it everywhere...not just in Indiana. Prior posters are right...just fly your airplane where you need to and advise them or say 'unable' when they screw it up. It's not that big of a deal...the sky is big and airplanes are small and we all have TCAS these days. Just do what you got to do and let them know when you do and be nice and professional. We are on a higher professional tier and we need to act that way.

Inbound to CLT the other day. I hear a "bluestreak" behind us with a request. They think they may have blown a tire on takeoff. They don't want to declare an emergency, but they want Atlanta Center to pass on a request to CLT to "roll the trucks." Huh??! Is this a video game? Roll the trucks? the controller asks. Yes, the crew responds, the other tire may not support the weight of the aircraft. No emergency? the controller asks. Not at this time.

Later, the crew asks the controller: if it's not too much trouble, we would like the center (longer) runway. Say again? We would like to request the center runway if it's not an inconvenience.

I hear this a lot these days, and it correlates to the above posts about weather avoidance. We are not here to please controllers. We are here to fly an airplane. They are here to keep us from hitting what we can't see. Don't sissy foot around and ask what's convenient. Don't waste radio time by being unclear. If you need the long runway, tell them that. If you may collapse the gear on landing, declare an emergency. That gets a whole list of things going without you having to ask. If you need 15 right for 30 miles, do it and tell them.

In other words, man up!

 

[jonjuan]

They shoulda asked to foam the runway.

 

[B6Busdriver]

They shoulda asked to foam the runway.

LOL. I forgot all about that, I'm going to email our training department to see if we can get this in the QRH.

 

[jetracer5]

LOL. I forgot all about that, I'm going to email our training department to see if we can get this in the QRH.

Just heard an ExpressJet ERJ with a blown tire ask for this......lol

 

[boeingdriver213]

There's a lot of new controllers out there. And with all the experienced guys retiring, there's gonna be even more of them out there. Give them a chance. The experienced controllers are not the only ones teaching them, we are also. Show them your professionalism. Tell them what you need, what you can do, and what you can't do. We all want to do all we can, but the safety and comfort of our passengers and cargo is what we get paid for.