What To Do When The Starter Dies...

[Rally]

Not sure I get your meaning there...either you mean it will windmill with the starter engaged (common when the starter fails and doesn't withdraw the bendix...which may or may not disengage the engine as it spins up, especially if it's the bendix drive that's failed), or you mean that the engine can windmill in flight for a restart. Either way, that's not really the issue.

Suppose the starter has failed for another reason, such as a short in the start circuitry? The starter is wired close to or directly to the battery, or the battery through the start relay. It has the potential to receive a lot of amperage which may be going some place else, which in turn may result in a fire, or damage to another component. Merely suggesting that it doesn't work and "is made safe" won't cut it. How do you propose to "make it safe?"

Suppose that starter isn't properly disengaging, or is making metal, which is entering the starter ring area...if the bendix has come apart, it may make big metal parts which may engage the starter ring or gear which can cause havoc, balance and vibration problems, or worse.

Suppose the starter has experienced a failed bearing internally and hasn't disengaged. You're potentially creating a lot of heat which could result in a starter frame fire, for lightweight starters with magnesium in the frame. That becomes an uncontrollable Class D fire which you're not going to put out, and a fire of that type will consume your engine and keep going.

What is it that you don't know yet? Keep asking that question when faced with something so seemingly simple. Yes, you can handprop the engine, but suppose that's really not the problem? When you have a mechanical problem, the soloution isn't to handprop it and go fly anyway. The airplane is talking to you, and you may not understand it's language. It may be telling you about something else entirely, and how well you understand depends on how close you listen. You don't listen with your ears, but through a mechanic who finds and fixes the small problem before it becomes a big problem.

I've seen starters and generators fall off engines, doing damage along the way. You could have something as simple as a poor connection, loose or corroded. Fix it. You could have a broken brush...but what broke it? Find out. Then fix it. This is important to know, and with most things mechanical, what you see on the surface is seldom the entire picture.

What in your post changes what I orginally said? LOL Rendered safe could mean all of the above that you discussed problem is once you did that you might as well fix it. If its say the windings in the motor and you know that and you disable the juice going to the starter I don't see the safety of flight issue. Thats like saying a MEL on a heater in Seneca which they have heater is'nt working. So you disable any possiblity of it starting operating or what not. I don't see the problem. Fact is airliners takeoff everyday with inop APUs. They GPU one engine and use bleeds for the other, whats the big deal? I guess the difference is the manufactuer has decided that its safe to do, which most of us here are no engineers that designed the aircraft.

Let me guess you've never hand started a aircraft (with a generator) with a dead battery? I don't want to hear the battery won't have enough voltage for the field argument here because I said generator. LOL

I love your posts BTW avbug

 

[avbug]

They GPU one engine and use bleeds for the other, whats the big deal? I guess the difference is...

...that a GPU won't start the airplane with a dead starter, bleed or otherwise. A fundamental aspect of most MEL's is that when a component of an item is inoperative, the entire item is inoperative. A GPU isn't a physical part of an engine, whereas a starter is.

Let me guess you've never hand started a aircraft (with a generator) with a dead battery? I don't want to hear the battery won't have enough voltage for the field argument here because I said generator. LOL

You shouldn't guess.

What has the battery to do with field or a generator, with respect to starting an airplane? Irrelevant, apples and oranges...unless you're considering using the generator to charge the battery, but you'll find that most maintenance publications dictate that the battery be removed for charging, and should never be charged in the airframe. You probably knew that.

 

[Rally]

Ok avbug so you got me baldy.

LOL

I always enjoy your aspect on things and you are 96 % of the time right, give us young guys a run for our money. Why don't you join the FAA?

 

[Rally]

Funny story on go no go decisions.

I once had a student in a C-150 that was like 76 years old. One day he saw me land a aircraft in a horrible crosswind, and said I want that guy to fly with me. I was'nt even a CFI at the time. Anyhow one day he is preflighting (I would do my own also) and I was about 25 ft away by my a/c. He starts yelling at me come look at this hurry! etc. Auto fuel is streaming down the fuel tank draining ports because it would leak and he would twist them to get the o rings to seat (autofuel) and it finally broke. I run over put my finger on it to stop the leak and he runs and gets a mechanic. Mechanic says put a bolt in it and go fly. I say no way. Everyday this student would call me to fly, my answer would always be spend the 13.99 and buy another valve, how do you know there is'nt water/contaminants in the fuel? Very funny to see, especially with this guys german accent.

 

[FN FAL]

Sounds like a fast way to end up with a broken arm, or worse.

I watched an airport manager try to hand prop my TSIO-470 after a bad set of batteries left me dead in water. We dang near got it started on one his "throws".

Needless to say a call to the local pizzeria and battery charger later, we were in the air. As far as starters going bad and this guy's career go? Hahahahaha.

 

[avbug]

I've successfully handpropped 470's and 520's many times.

 

[gkrangers]

Ok avbug so you got me baldy.

LOL

I always enjoy your aspect on things and you are 96 % of the time right, give us young guys a run for our money. Why don't you join the FAA?

You really want someone who might know what they are talking about working at the FAA? Honestly its better the way it is...

Besides, he'd probably make it a point to bust flightinfoers.

 

[RipCurl]

You really want someone who might know what they are talking about working at the FAA? Honestly its better the way it is...

You have no idea just how true those words are...