What to do about a bad examiner?

[vectorvictor]

I recently started to work on instrument rating with this guy that he got a 'free ride' on his private pilots checkride. I mean this guy is so bad that he cannot tell me what a radial is and he constantly gets lost when his MFD is turned off.
Turns out this guy got his private from the FBO that is owned by his buddy and the owner has an examiner on staff. He was trying to get his instrument rating in 10 days, but he doesn't even meet the requirements of Private PTS.

Now this guy is going to go to the original examiner because he doesn't want to do his instrument check ride with someone else. I am concerned that he will have another 'sure, com'on over' reception.

How can I prevent this guy getting a free instrument rating which i am sure will be a death wish in clouds and terrain? (we have a lot of them here)
I tried to talk to the examiner but he wouldn't return my calls at all.

If this guy is really that bad you have a responsibility as an instructor to bring this to the attention of the pilot you are instructing. I would voice my concerns about his skill level. If he doesn't like what you say than he will stop seeking your services as an instructor. If he respects you he will let you bring him up to the PTS. Either way you can sleep good at night. I know it sounds harsh but you didn't sign him off for his private so it isn't your responsibility that he got the ticket. It is your responsibility to alert him to your concerns and to help him get better.

As far as the examiner goes well....welcome to GA. Its sad but you're going to see a lot of that. There are a LOT of good examiners but it only takes a few bad ones to really hurt the system. My advice would be to let this one go. I wouldn't send any students to this examiner but I would keep my head below the trench line. You never know who is in who's pocket and how your well intended concerns will screw up the rest of your career. I hate to say it but when you voice your concerns you will probably not get a chance to help this person out. You will end up discontinuing the training and they will find some other CFI with lower moral standards and go back to the easy check ride with the "nice" examiner. Human nature is to seek the easy way out. This works well when it comes to other things in life but aviation is notoriously unforgiving.

 

[indefinitehold]

Some of this advise is a little extreme. Do you know for sure this examiner has a history of doing this? Is this an isolated incident? What kind of reputation does this examiner have among the instructors? Do you have prove that there is a pattern of "giving away" checkrides?

If you don't already know, I'd do a little research before goding to the FSDO, or a standardization board. Remember, your reputation is on the line too.

I have to agree with SSDD, you may be jumping the gun, but I commend you for questioning the matter. DEs(Designated Examiners) make alot of money doing check rides. They also develope a professional relationship with the FAA. The relationship can make and of course break your aviation career with the Feds. Can some one give away a easy or free check ride? Of course the can, but I dont think that a DE would jeapordize their reputation with the feds or risk someones life by allowing them to recieve a certificate to kill them selves or others.

What I would suggest is talk to the DE, tell him that you have been continuing this persons training. Tell him your confused as to his progress to date. Ask the DE about his ride, "did he do OK on the ride?", " what was his weak points". "any advice?" The DE should respond positively to your information request, it is a certificate to LEARN, and the DE knows that.

If the DE gives ya the brush off....well then refer to the above suggestions.

 

[avbug]

He was trying to get his instrument rating in 10 days, but he doesn't even meet the requirements of Private PTS.

Are you saying that this individual didn't perform for you to the standards prescribed by the Practical Test Standards? Or are you telling us that this individual didn't meet the technical requirements to qualify for a private pilot certicate, as spelled out by 14 CFR 61.103, 61.105, 61.107, and 61.109?

As you know, the PTS prescribes not the standards for every day pilot performance, but only the standards which must be achieved on the day the practical test is administered. Why can say how the student performed on that day, except the examiner? The examiner has certified that the student did indeed perform to those standards...thus endeth the trail of evidence. Good luck with that.

If you can show that the student is so grossly incompetent that such a performance is patently impossible, you may have a case. In the meantime, you can report your suspicion to the FSDO, and a surveillance may be opened on the examiner, and the instructor who recommended the student or his practical test standards.

How can I prevent this guy getting a free instrument rating...?

You can't.

What you can do is prevent yourself from recommending the student. If the student isn't qualified to the practical test, you have a moral and a legal duty to not recommend him for the practical test. If you believe the student to be dangerous, you have a duty to discontinue instructiona and notify the FSDO immediately.

You can't prevent the student from becomng certified, however nor can you control the value or difficulty of the instrument rating if at any time it should be awarded. You can only control your own actions and report what you know to those who can control the situation.

I tried to talk to the examiner but he wouldn't return my calls at all.

Confronting the examiner is not recommended. It's a bad idea.

What do you hope to accomplish? Do you hope that the examiner will reverse his decision? He can't, nor is he expected to do so when such a reversal would be self-incrimination. Do you hope the examiner will see the light, acknowledge your accusation that he's subverting the regulation and awarding "free" ratings? Why would he possibly do that? You have nothing to gain there. Do you hope to make yourself feel better by personally confronting him? You might, but you won't feel nearly so good when it only complicates matters. Do you think the examiner is doing this innocently and just hasn't seen things clearly yet? Think again. You have nothing to gain by confronting the examiner. Nothing.

Now this guy is going to go to the original examiner because he doesn't want to do his instrument check ride with someone else.

Who recommended him to take the practical test??

I mean this guy is so bad that he cannot tell me what a radial is and he constantly gets lost when his MFD is turned off.

Your course with respect to instructing and recommending this individual is clear. You have the authorization, privilege, and duty to evalute the student, determine if he is instructable, provide that instruction if your judgement dictates so, or refuse to continue providing instruction and refuse to endore the student for privileges or a practical test until such time as the student meets the appropriate standards as YOU apply them to him. You already know this.

What is the real question here, then?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Don't worry, he'll end up as Mesa anyway.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have no intentions of signing this guy off, but I am more concerned about the examiner. If he is going to give favors to the buddies of the owner, i think he doesn't deserve to be an examiner at the first place.

Your concern is for that of your student(s), NOT the examiner. Train your student to proficiency and sign him off. It really is that black and white. If your student does not meet the standards for beginning inst. training, back up and start where the student needs to start.

It will be a disappointment to your student, but they will appreciate the honesty.

My 2 cents.

 

[acaTerry]

Good Advise

Bad spelling...adviCe

 

[AngelKing]

uuuuhhhh......whats an MFD?


AK

 

[Say Again Over]

A fancy ADI with airspeed indicator and altimeter?

 

[AngelKing]

A fancy ADI with airspeed indicator and altimeter?

Is that a question or a staement?


AK

 

[Say Again Over]

Sorry, got it wrong, an MFD or Multi-Functional Display is like the upper or lower LCD displays in the Airbus (For system displays, etc.), the thing in front of the pilots is the PFD.