What the hell?

[dseagrav]

Reposted from a -flight simulator- forum of all things...

Subject: "Urgent ! Real 747 engineer required !!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I have n't posted for a while but I am in desperate need of advice!
I am taking an airline to court tomorrow, but they have only got me their evidence today. I am trying to find out some info, but most of the engineering companies are unwilling to help.
Can the number 1 engine be run while numer 3 & 4 engines are removed ?(ground maintenance conditions...not flight!)

Someone mentions a test stand, and then he posts...

Thanks for your reply, but I need an engineer who can verify this by email as My court action is tomorrow afternoon.
I am sure that it can be done but with 2 engines missing from the other wing there could be structural damage? caused by the weight on the spar?
I just want to have good proof.

and

New question, Can a faulty non-operational thrust reverser be tested/fault diagnosed without engine power? ( I am assuming that the apu is supplying electricity and hydralics)
It was a detached cable (wire not electrical) from the cockpit controls to the thrust flaps.
Could this be diagnosed without the engine running?

Something tells me there's some hilariously stupid circumstances involved here...

 

[Fearless Tower]

I'd love to see this guy in court......According to these statements from johnny who is a microsoft flight sim expert.....

I'm suprised he didn't post that on airliners.net!

 

[dseagrav]

The plot thickens!

The guy got a bit more verbose...

The internet is read by many and I learned a lot about the particular by joining their forums. I do not want to risk the chance of someone reading it from the company, if I am too specific.
Who knows, there is a good chance that some people in the industry like flight sims.

and then the shoe drops and we find the motivating factor!

I only needed one question answered and I got it.
The defendant's evidence was handed to me 5 days late. That was yesterday........the day before court.
As I said my case went well today and the airline has been torn off a strip by the judge.
The case was ajourned until a whole day could be set aside instead of the 2 hours.
He said my case may become a test case for Eu261/2004 regulations and was too big to be settled in 2 hours.

EU261/2004 is a new (stupid) European law forcing airlines to pay compensation to passengers if their flight delays or is cancelled. This in turn causes the airlines to rush things and put people in danger, so more airplanes crash, and air travel suffers some more. (It apparently hasn't suffered enough.) But then again, I'm just an american, I can't possibly be smart enough to understand EUROPEAN thinking. I'm certain there's some higher purpose that I'm just not seeing.

He also names his sources and says this about being told to talk to proper channels:

I have and it is like some secret society. The people I am taking to court have taken over 1 year to supply me with a few papers.
I spent the day yesterday on the phone taking to: Cargolux in luxembourg, Rolls Royce and the CAA in UK and Boeing in Seattle.
They are all unwilling to commit themselves when it involves a case against a company that may or may not be one of their clients.

Gee, ya think? "Loose Lips Sink Ships" doesn't just apply to U-boats, pal!
This whole thing stinks like more ambulance-chaser horse-puckey.

 

[navigator72]

Who the hell cares? and more importantly, what are you doing on a flight sim board?

 

[dseagrav]

what are you doing on a flight sim board?

Teasing the dorks, of course! (This IS the Internet...)

 

[mtrv]

Who the hell cares? and more importantly, what are you doing on a flight sim board?

Don't laugh,

There are a whole lot of pilots including GA, Commercial, and Military who are on flightsim boards. Some have even made a good living from producing simulated aircraft as payware. But it's took years of experience to get the knack.

You'll also find a lot of military veterens who flew in various wars, or even as test pilots, but can no longer fly. For them, a flight sim is just a good way to still remember flight. Besides, some of the models are very authentic in systems, looks, and flight dynamics.

And that isn't all. Today's simulations have extremely accurate landscapes and topography. You can use the simulation to fly to an un-known airport while using authentic navaids along the way. The simulations are also accurate enough to brush up on IFR skills.

And as I've reported under a different topic, someday many pilots will be flying IFR with a synthetic 3D terrain system on the HUD or PFD. Something that simmers are doing already!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Here is a disturbing thought, currently the combat UAV's in Iraq and Afganistan are being flown by pilots in Florida via satallite link.

The Air Force says that the Joint strike fighter project will be their last manned fighter.

These kids on the sims now are probably the fighter jocks of tomorrow and the airline pilots that take our jobs in another 20 years or so........

Of course another 20 years or so past that a H.A.L. like computer will take their jobs!!!!!

 

[Snakum]

MAGLEVs man ... MAGLEVs. Elevated MAGLEV tracks cris-crossing the globe will replace airliners.

 

[handlesaregay]

These kids on the sims now are probably the fighter jocks of tomorrow and the airline pilots that take our jobs in another 20 years or so........

It will never happen in passenger ops. First of all it's not that much more economical paying someone sitting on the ground vs. sitting in the plane. Either way you're still having to pay someone. Secondly, passengers will never buy it. You'll never get people to trust their lives to an unmanned drone. They still have conductors on trains (even the maglev kind) and they will still have pilots on planes long after we're all gone. It's such a fantasy idea I don't know even where to begin to start picking it apart. How is a drone going to know it needs to go around at the last second because there's a deer on the runway? Flying around WX? All the possible emergencies? Engine on fire people screaming... "Ladies and gentleman this is your Captain speaking from our control room in sunny Orlando, FL. It seems we, I mean you, have a serious situation --whoops stby almost spilled a little coffee on my tie- anyway yeah uh we're trying real hard to troubleshoot the problem so everybody just remain calm and follow the Flight Attendant's instructions and rest assured we're working real hard here in the control room to troubleshoot the problem." -Yeah right.

-Just to add to that I guess what I'm saying is there is no substitute for a human brain, eyes, and ears when it comes to dealing with the endless amount of emergency scenarios. It'll never fly. Whoever thinks it's "just around the corner" has been watching too much sci fi channel.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

It will never happen in passenger ops. First of all it's not that much more economical paying someone sitting on the ground vs. sitting in the plane. Either way you're still having to pay someone. Secondly, passengers will never buy it. You'll never get people to trust their lives to an unmanned drone. They still have conductors on trains (even the maglev kind) and they will still have pilots on planes long after we're all gone. It's such a fantasy idea I don't know even where to begin to start picking it apart. How is a drone going to know it needs to go around at the last second because there's a deer on the runway? Flying around WX? All the possible emergencies? Engine on fire people screaming... "Ladies and gentleman this is your Captain speaking from our control room in sunny Orlando, FL. It seems we, I mean you, have a serious situation --whoops stby almost spilled a little coffee on my tie- anyway yeah uh we're trying real hard to troubleshoot the problem so everybody just remain calm and follow the Flight Attendant's instructions and rest assured we're working real hard here in the control room to troubleshoot the problem." -Yeah right.

Actually it would be much more economical. No Hotel Rooms, no per deim, crew rooms, crew meals, crew transportation, etc.....But that is beside the point.

We can now fly a space craft across the solar system and land it on another planet with ground based control. The ruskies version of the space shuttle flew unmanned, most airport trams are unmanned now.

The real test will be the military. If they go unmanned with their fighters as they plan and it works, you can bet that the air carrier mgmt. types will try to figure out how to do it. The UAV's now have full camera and sensor suites that allow all the needed visual and sensory information needed to conduct combat ops that include weapon delivery from remote positions.

Passenger concerns will be the biggest hurdle to it. Most of the general public already thinks that airline pilots do nothing but program the autopilot and sit back and watch. I can't count how many times I have heard passengers say something to the effect of "No little johnny, this airplane lands it's self, the pilots just make sure the computer is working correctly."

Add to that the fact that the kids now will be even more used to computer control and automation than we are and the level of resistance to such a system will only decrease.

The last truck I bought was proudly advertised by the builder to be 70% assembled by robot! It was a selling ploy by the company to stress the quality of the product since "human error" had been removed from so much of the process.

In fact in the past decade most of the deaths in aircarriers have been "human error" as far as the public is concerned. AA in cali...programming error by the pilots, Comair...wrong runway etc.. All you have to do is listen to the news media to get a feel for joe public, "Pilots overrode the computer....shut off autopilot" etc etc.

Passengers already think we don't fly the things now.......