What keeps you in aviation!

[Air Biscuit]

What would you have management do to pay you more? Raise fares across the board in order to pay all employees more, no that will not work the consumers will go someplace else, Oh! How about reducing market share concentrate on the money making high yield routes, whoops! that would mean a reduction in force, and you might loose your Capt.’s seat. So how would you go about getting more money for you and your airline? They all want to make money, but no one seems to have the answer. I still think $100K/yr for doing something you like is a great job. And no I did not cross the line.

My airline has the money to pay alot more towards inline pay with the legacy carriers and still make a profit, so they don't need to raise fares anyway. In case you're wondering I work for X-jet, take a look at the financials. I think you are way out of touch, because there are very few people pulling down 100K or even close to it. Check out airlinepilotpay.com. I have one more question for you. Do you think it's o.k. for a profitable company to have it's employees qualify for WIC and at the same time worry about losing market share? If companies are losing money while paying poverty level wages they don't deserve to stay in business period. Let them die and be replaced with companies who can. Take a stand, shut the doors and be done with it. Enough is enough.

 

[pilotyip]

$100K/yr bad for industry

I have been told on this board, that $100K/yr are slave wages and people who work for those wages are part of the problem. Are you saying you think $100K/yr is a good wages, then you must be part of the problem drawing down the wages at the airlines. If working there is as bad as you say it is, you and your fellow pilots have to vote with your feet, massive turnover will get the owners attention. The training costs will start to mount and they may see it is cheaper to pay their emnployees more and save on training. I still think $100K/yr is a good wages because I have never seen it.

 

[FracCapt]

We all hate aviation....after all, why else would we be reading an AVIATION MESSAGE BOARD during our free time?!

 

[MYFpilot]

I like flying the line for several reasons:

1. Formation flying into SFO
2. Radio Disney
3. It's fun making people air sick.
4. Per diem
5. Victory wheelies
6. Free USA Todays
8. All you can eat crappy snacks
9. Bad airplane coffee
10. Overpriced airport coffee
11. No flare Navy landings
12. Climbing to "11 thousand" to pass Eagle
13. Cutting in line in front of 300 angry people waiting for TSA to probe them
14. Free breakfast, sometimes
15. ...and many, many more things you don't see or do at a "regular" job

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

This industry bites. All i can say is that we are getting _ucked. The word
on the street is that a Aircraft Cleaner at US AIR is making $45k plus.
A freekin cleaner. Do you have to speak english to clean puke?
Do you have to have a medical? How about testing every 6 months?

I know you're venting and I sometimes feel the same way when I'm on long layovers like that.
(I don't know if you meant 45K/year literally, but I'm assuming so) No way can an aircraft cleaner make that kind of money, even a ramp agent, PSA, gate agent or whatever. I would guess that maybe after 20+ years of seniority, depending on the airline, can an airline worker maybe make over 35k/yr possibly. I was a ramper for a large regional back in the late 80's for nearly 9 years. Right before I quit, I was earning more than a newhire regional F.O. (not hard to do), and even more than the F.O.'s in their 2nd year. I do remember dropping off bags in the Delta bagroom and talking to the old rampers who have worked for Delta for something like 30 years. If I remember correctly, they were making an astronomical amount of money, something like over 50K/yr.

 

[Rook]

because I can't sing or dance...AY, YO...(Rocky)

Rook

 

[Stick Man]

It pays for my second career - politics.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Yea, I see what you mean and your math appears to add up. I just didn't know we were including overtime. That 19.44 per hour seems a little high for an airport worker, so I'm assuming he/she has been there awhile. If you take out the overtime, it's only 40435.20. That's still alot for his job description.

If you want to include overtime, then my overtime rate at my airline is about $350 per day for me personally (including per diem). Pilots (especially fo's, due to the fact that we're short) have worked up to a week of overtime a month.
7 days X $350=$2450 of overtime.
I personally make about $50/k year, not counting overtime. If I did $2450 of overtime a month, that would be an extra $29400/yr.
$29400+$50000=79400/yr. So, including overtime flying, I have a potential of making $79,400 per year as an FO at my airline. Do I work that much ot? heck no, I'd like to see my family a little bit. MY point of saying all of that is because if you work overtime (given the fact it's available) you can make aloooooot more $$$.
I do think that regional pay is a bunch of schitt..I almost interviewed at Eagle, but I kept putting it off because I could't put my family on food stamps just based on the fact that "I wanted to fly".

 

[DetoXJ]

Premium pay is where you rack up some $$. Everybody seems to want their 15+ days off per month and I realize days off are precious to us pilots but if your willing to give up a day or two off per month you can really boost your earnings. I have flown with several 4 year FO's who are making 40K+. It is pretty easy to credit 110+ per month IF you are willing to give up a couple days off per month. I have flown about 750 YTD and have already credited over 1100 hours YTD. Your example showed how much Overtime the cleaner had to work to make the big bucks you were claiming so I am just trying to compare apples to apples. The difference is that the Bus Driver, Home Depot worker, Airplane Cleaner, ect ect might make 35K-45K but that is all they will ever make. All the senior FO's whose upgrades are long overdue do their fare share of pissing and moaning about how low their pay is but they have much higher paying days ahead of them while the cleaners and bus drivers don't.

 

[pilot1704]

Since I started this, I have to say something!

I been reading every day this board since I joined. I am a pilot and my wife is a pilot also. We together make two unhappy pilots and the first post for this thread tells you why.

But what makes me even more happy that all these over 40 reply's noone has anything positive to say.

Lets all quit flying and start doing something else?

 

[DetoXJ]

There have been several threads about what we like about our jobs and I have seen a lot of positive comments. You and your wife are just so miserable and discontent that you choose to overlook the things that a lot of people like about flying for a living. We all want to make more $$ but when it boils down to it, your income isn't that easily replaceable. If it was, and, you and your wife are so unhappy, then you wouldn't be subjecting yourself to all the misery that your job brings you two. If you and your wife are so unhappy and you think you are grossly underpaid then why do you continue? Get the heck out and go be miserable doing something else. It's sad that some people are so bitter and unhappy that they can't accept the fact that there are regional pilots that totally love their job flying and they feel they make a good living doing it.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I have been told on this board, that $100K/yr are slave wages and people who work for those wages are part of the problem. Are you saying you think $100K/yr is a good wages, then you must be part of the problem drawing down the wages at the airlines. If working there is as bad as you say it is, you and your fellow pilots have to vote with your feet, massive turnover will get the owners attention. The training costs will start to mount and they may see it is cheaper to pay their emnployees more and save on training. I still think $100K/yr is a good wages because I have never seen it.

DUDE, I HAVE SEEN IT........BETWEEN 4 FRIGGIN JOBS. Let me tell you, it IS NOT AS MUCH AS YOU THINK! Especially since now we have to fund our own retirement.

 

[Lear70]

because I can't sing or dance...AY, YO...(Rocky)

Rook

Could've fooled me...

I think if the AVERAGE salary at the regionals was $100,000 and the AVERAGE salary at the majors was $200,000 with decent bennies, a good 401k match, and maybe even a "B" Fund, yeah, I'd say we were decently paid.

HOWEVER, the AVERAGE pilot DOES NOT MAKE THAT KIND OF MONEY. The salary average between every commercial pilot who makes their primary living in the aviation world was somewhere around $70k if memory serves (about what I make now after 12 years in the biz). I've seen more, I've seen a LOT less, but this average is NOT what most of us were expecting.

PFT Blacklist? Not going there...

 

[pilotyip]

Why you fly

Goes back to basics, you belong in this business if you were thinking about airplanes before you discovered girls were the opposite sex. I have never had a job that paid a $100K and I think I live well, own a house and an airplane have a decent retirement put away.

 

[pilot1704]

I agree with Limod!

There is not much to be happy about in Flying at the moment!

And who says something else must be some old guy flying some small 4 engines jets and that is all what they can accomplish!

 

[pilotyip]

What is 4 eng small jet?

Lockheed Jet Star is the smallest I can think of, plus that one-of kind miniture CV-880.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Goes back to basics, you belong in this business if you were thinking about airplanes before you discovered girls were the opposite sex. I have never had a job that paid a $100K and I think I live well, own a house and an airplane have a decent retirement put away.

Pilotyip, I don't live large, but man, you must live on Ramen noodles in Podunk. I could live like a queen in the middle of no where on that, but the fact of the matter is....I don't. I am based in Chicago.

Another thing, that's great if you think that......I don't....I think pilots are worth more than that. I worked my a$$ off to get to where I am and flying never came easily to me. I have also never had A job that paid that. I haven't had 2 jobs that paid that. It would be nice to have ONE job that paid that....especially since life should not be taken up by working all the time.

 

[Hammer&Tape]

For myself, any time I feel down about my choice of carrer I bring some of my kids friends to the hanger and they remind me of just how cool my job is. The pay could always be better but if I want to make more money I could go back to fixing cars.But that is not cool acording to the kids .Aviation is a sickness on controlled by jet fumes and blue skys . .

 

[schafjet]

I can't do anything else. I have no marketable talents.

 

[pilotyip]

Big Fine?

Did not APA get hit with a big fine for the work stoppage?

 

[capt. megadeth]

I agree with you.

I still don't get it.

OK you like your job. And to you it is a cool job. Maybe even to your kids.

Do you go to your Bank Manager and say "Sorry i can't make my morgage
payments this month...But i have a cool job".

Back in 1999 American Airlines Pilots had all called in sick for 10 straight days.
A judge ordered them all back to work. We have the power we just need
the balls to use it.


.02

 

[ATRCAPT]

I'm just not smart enough to do anything else!

 

[foreverflyer]

I never came back to this thread after I posted. Maybe I should have.

Some of you are still whining babies. As I said before, if you do not like the pay/qol....get out. But also nice to see a few people post positive comments.

To whatever? buiscut...I may not be the best typist but do not need that skill to be a fantastic pilot. And I would never cross a picket line. I am not a whore or a potential scab. I love my job. If you cannot live within your means then maybe you should find a more stable job that is less contingent on the tourism industry or business travelers. Ever hear the phrase 'aviation is cyclical" or how about 9/11? Hmmmm....maybe these are reasons why the industry changed????? And I WAS a pilot for a missionary service. So there!

Pilot 1704...I hope you and your wife do quit flying. You do not deserve to be so unhappy. Find a job you where you can make 250K then maybe you will be happy.

So much in aviation is linked to the economy. Maybe you all should have taken economics courses before your mommys let you pick your careers. Or maybe a course in financial planning. You know? The one that says don't buy the mid-life crisis sports car and the $500,000 house when you have a wife that does not work and three kids to put thru college while making only $80,000 a year.

Aren't we all supposed to think about safety first? It is not just money that makes planes fly. It is also pilots. Miserable people are usually the worst performers at their jobs. Think of your passengers and your families when you put your unsafe @ss into an airplane.

I have worked my butt off for more years than I care to count. I am definitely worth more than I am paid. I would love to have a six figure job. But I also do not want my company to ticket price me out of a job.

Miserable people......Get out of my skies!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Guat Strikes Back

 

[climbhappy]

maybe i shouldn't have read foreverflyer's post

eternalpilot: the question was "what keeps you in aviation?'

right now I'm furloughed, but I put a year into a small business with a friend and it's paying off. The reality is no one here is whining.

You're in denial if you don't think the pay sucks.... and you don't own the skies. I had all the econ, accounting, and marketing i need.

the truth is it's a mature industry like textiles where labor is cheap. if you want some finer things in life, (irregardless of whether you like to pull gear or say gear down) this industry may not deliver. So where are you at then of the day? Are you a whiny baby if you think it is a deadend career path? the only ones who it works out for are the captains at the legacy or major carriers. and plenty of other corp or fractional jobs.

Bottom line is it works out for some, doesn't for others

It has no bearing on whether the aircraft is safe. Get real. we're not miserable just honest.

I personally don't know if i want to go back to crappy schedules or commuting or to being away from my wife and kids on great summer weekends like this one, father's day.

At the end of the day, it is risk assessment. Can i afford to waste any more of MY precious time , which is unique to me, and not to you, for what may be a LOW , crummy return on that investment of time?

Why would I when I can get checked out in one of my rich friends new Cirrus 20s and just have to put gas in it to get that cheap thrill that doesn't last. you know the one kind of like Ejaculation.

 

[FN FAL]

What are you going to do? Get a REAL job?

Don't knock real jobs, I'm raking in the dough with my Ab Initio chicken deboner and kill floor technician training academy. The local meat plant hires my bridge program graduates as fast as I can get them across the border and into the program.

 

[Lear70]

Jesus Christ... 2 freaking years and you resurrect this?

WTFO???

 

[Guitar Guy]

My record keeps me from obtaining better employment so I have to stay in avaition.

 

[fried chickens]

Alimony, child support payment, ever increasing paternity tests, buying dinner for the future ex-wives. We can't quit.

but really, who wants that 9-5 gig. On a good day you'll hand fly for a few thousand feet, push a button and finish a few chapters out of your book. On a bad day...well, you just earned your pay however small it might be. Either way it beats the office life.

 

[climbhappy]

friedchickens,

Quote" either way it beats the office life..."

yeah, well!..... some days hitting the glide slope arm button on the MCP in the boeing was about as challenging as taking a dump.

i enjoyed flying more when i was in the jetstream or beech up north... great challenges and up close with the pax....

trying to endure 3 1/2 to 4 hour legs can get real boring.

i'm in sales , so i'm not chained to a desk...

sure the career has been extremely rewarding. my first type rating.... first couple of months as a captain

it's really just like any other job after a while