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What is wrong with the airlines...

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Whirlwind

Fling-wing pilot
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
356
Ok, this is my semi-informed opinion here, so feel free to flame away...

It seems to me that the major airlines have missed the boat completely.

When airlines first started service, they were a royal affair. Red carpet treatment, only the wealthy and government workers could fly.

Back in those days, flying was an adventure, an experience in and of itself. Many flights in the old piston airliners were all day adventures taking up to 14 hours to fly long distances with as many as 60 people on board. Even with the advent of the 707 and jet service, flying was still a "luxury" event that was to be treasured for the experience.

Today, flying is a way to get somewhere, no more and no less. A seat on an airliner today is like a bus seat, a place to put your fanny while you're taken from point A to point B in the least amount of time for the least amount of money possible

Airlines have gone from being luxury transportation to the flying Greyhound Bus service. Someone just forgot to tell the major airlines.

The people who founded Southwest figured this out 30 years ago. Forget first class, fancy meals, in-flight movies, and all that jazz. Just take a bunch of people from Point "A" to Point "B" as quickly, cheaply, and hassle free as possible.

That is what the vast majority of people want today in their airline. Simple, easy, hassle free.

When I need to fly to Oklahoma City, OK from Dallas, TX, American Airlines charges 6 different fares that change all the time, even during the day. I never can tell how much it is going to cost on any given day without searching.

I know Southwest will charge me $92 for a last minute purchase and $63 for a 7 day advance purchase ticket. Doesn't matter what day I fly, doesn't matter when I want to come back. The price is the same all week long, every hour of every day.

BTW, since I've flown this many times, I can tell you that most of the time, American's lowest fare is $109. Not bad, but still $17 more than Southwest. Hmm, let me think here. Same airplanes, same service, same amount of time in the air, one costs more than the other...

Gee, whichever should I pick? :rolleyes:

And that is why Southwest makes money year after year while American only makes money when the economy is good.

American Airlines lost $3.5 Billion last year
Southwest made a few tens of millions (not much but hey, all things considered, that ain't bad)

AMRs management should be fired for gross stupidity. They should copy Southwest's business plan using a Xerox machine. Don't get cute, don't try to "tweak it", don't try to personalize it, don't try to "enhance it", just copy the damm business plan and run with it.

It is not rocket science, all short range routes use 737s, medium range routes use 757/767s, long range routes use 777s.

Get rid of all other airplanes. (yes, including the Stupid 80s, you should be flying 737/757s on those routes)

Oh yea, something else you AA pilots won't like... Match Southwest's pay scales. You can't compete on price if you're paying everyone 50% more than Southwest does.

Oh, and that's another point. As long as everyone is flying the same airplanes to the same airports at the same speed, the only thing you have to compete on is price.

These are my own humble opinions, flame away... ;)

WW
 
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I couldn't agree more. Airline travel used to be an event that people dressed up for and seemed to take as part of an adventure. Now it's a bunch of cattle climibing aboard planes in sweatpants, ushaven (occaisonally unbathhed), and otherwise a crowd more suited to Greyhound than Delta.

I guess travel becoming more accessible to the masses is a good thing, but I wish SOME of the glamour was still alive in aviation.

For now we're just happy to have the pax who show up and buy tickets.
 
I couldn't agree more. Airline travel used to be an event that people dressed up for and seemed to take as part of an adventure. Now it's a bunch of cattle climibing aboard planes in sweatpants, ushaven (occaisonally unbathhed), and otherwise a crowd more suited to Greyhound than Delta.

My Mom (who is 57) and I recently flew on American to visit family over Christmas. Standing at the ticket counter was a man in cutoff jeans, a ripped t-shirt, and unkept hair. His wife's hair was actually still in curlers, covered by a bandana.

My Mom commented to me that back in the 60's when she was a kid, you had to get dressed up to go flying and they wouldn't even let you on the plane in such a condition. It was considered uncivilised to show yourself in public like that.

I guess travel becoming more accessible to the masses is a good thing, but I wish SOME of the glamour was still alive in aviation.

No offense intended, but this is one reason why flying the big iron doesn't interest me. I don't want the computer to fly, I want to do the flying. This is why I picked helicopters, I find them a lot more interesting because you have to actually do the flying, making a lot of decisions in a short period of time, and landing in different places on a regular basis.

I fly airplanes as well, but for fun. To me, flying a 172 is flying, flying a 737 is a systems management job.

*shrug*

For now we're just happy to have the pax who show up and buy tickets.

Perhaps, but it won't matter for too much longer if the majors repeat last year.

The major airlines in the United States lost over $13 Billion last year. Southwest and JetBlue made money...

For all their educuation, the CEOs of the majors are way out of touch. The recent "Song Airlines" proposal by Delta is further proof.

Sigh...

WW
 
Yeah, the nasty masses are pretty discouraging. I wish we still had some kind of dress code. People say "Oh, I want to be comfortable," so they look like crap when they fly. Do they look like that when they go out to dinner? Probably.

What's really sad is the groups in First Class, with upgrade and frequent flier miles, there are the cut-off jean crowd up front. I was deadheading one time up in First, some construction worker somehow got upgraded--this guy absolutely wreaked of booze and was wearing dirty jeans and a ripped shirt. At least I was an employee and not some passenger who just paid $1200 for that ticket.

As for actual flying, you can hand fly as much as you want! We use the automation to alleviate fatigue and help with work load during higher stress times. Don't knock system management, when you are flying at .84 you need all the help (especially in descent planning) that you can get.

Still, I understand your draw to helicopters and 172's. When I'm at smaller fields I am definitely envious of the guys in a Cherokee doing touch and go's for fun.
 
Yeah, the nasty masses are pretty discouraging. I wish we still had some kind of dress code. People say "Oh, I want to be comfortable," so they look like crap when they fly. Do they look like that when they go out to dinner? Probably.

Kinda sad, isn't it? I personally would be embaressed to go out in public like that to the corner 7-11, much less on an airline.

What's really sad is the groups in First Class, with upgrade and frequent flier miles, there are the cut-off jean crowd up front.

Sheesh, tell me about it. Used to be all business people up front, now you can tell a lot of them are upgrades/awards pax.

I was deadheading one time up in First, some construction worker somehow got upgraded--this guy absolutely wreaked of booze and was wearing dirty jeans and a ripped shirt. At least I was an employee and not some passenger who just paid $1200 for that ticket.

I would imagine that people paying $1,200 for a ticket are doing it partly to be up front, and partly to get AWAY from people like that.

For that much money, the ticket counter people should ensure they don't allow such people up front.

Maybe bringing back a dress code for first class might make sense?

As for actual flying, you can hand fly as much as you want! We use the automation to alleviate fatigue and help with work load during higher stress times. Don't knock system management, when you are flying at .84 you need all the help (especially in descent planning) that you can get.

Ok, don't get me wrong, maybe it really is fun. I've never done it, so I wouldn't really know.

I have picked helicopters for my career, so obviously I'm biased and I'm going to talk it up while making fun of the heavy iron drivers. Feel free to make as many helicopter jokes as you want, I don't mind! :D

Still, I understand your draw to helicopters and 172's. When I'm at smaller fields I am definitely envious of the guys in a Cherokee doing touch and go's for fun.

I own a Cessna 172 that I puddle jump with, flying around Texas. I do love flying airplanes too, I just enjoy hand flying them.

I think I'd enjoy hand flying a 737 too, but the pax in the back might complain after my 10th, "Whee, watch this Frank!" as I dive, then climb! ;)

There is a famous photo of the test pilot for the Boeing 707 program, he rolled the plane over in a standard 1g roll. I might not have a job for long if I did that, but boy would I love the chance to try!!! :D

WW
 
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dmspilot00 said:
What is wrong with MD80s? Just curious.

Nasty airplane, they are old, small, uncomfortable, loud, ugh...

Just talk to some AA flight attendents, I've heard several of them refer to the plane as the Stupid 80. :D

They all much prefer the 57 and 67.

WW
 
whirlwind,

I think you may have misunderstood the FAs. I am sure they may like the 767, but they do not like working the 757. The length,configurtion, and loads make them term it "the slave ship"

As for systems mangement. You don't need all the help you can get. Try planning the descent using the 1/3 ratio. Do the mental math in your head. Turn off the autothrottles, turn off the FD. Hand fly the the airplane to cruise, and down to landing. The airplane flies just fine without the magic.

Viewing the rockies pass below you as the sun sets, watching a 747 pass 1000 above with it's contrails dragging behind it in the dawn over the N Atlantic, watching the sun rise over the Alps as you plan an approach into Zurich, these are truly inspiring views.

Every once in a while you see a first class filled with well dressed people, or a father who is taking his son to the flight deck for the first time, and you see the amazement in the childs eyes.

I enjoy GA flying, those are my roots, but airline flying can be a lot of fun.

AAflyer
P.S. Every once in awhile they hand you an empty 757 to ferry or test fly, now that is FUN!
 
AAflyer said:
Viewing the rockies pass below you as the sun sets, watching a 747 pass 1000 above with it's contrails dragging behind it in the dawn over the N Atlantic, watching the sun rise over the Alps as you plan an approach into Zurich, these are truly inspiring views.


Hey, we get all that in GA (Part 91 Corporate) too!

Well sort of... We usually view 747's dragging contrails 5,000 below us over the North Atlantic... ;)
 
AAflyer said:
whirlwind,

I think you may have misunderstood the FAs. I am sure they may like the 767, but they do not like working the 757. The length,configurtion, and loads make them term it "the slave ship"

I just report 'em, I don't make 'em up... *shrug*

P.S. Every once in awhile they hand you an empty 757 to ferry or test fly, now that is FUN!

LOL! Having fun playing with the airplane, do you? If I'm not mistaken, an empty 757 would have an impressive power to weight ratio... Must be a lot of fun!

WW
 

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