What do you instructors log in remarks?

[flyf15]

Hey guys,

Curious as to what all of you instructors write down in the remarks section in your logbook for dual given flights. I keep very extensive logs of each lesson outside of my logbook but nothing more than the name and type of training in my logbook. A typical remark of would be "Joe Pilot - Instrument Lesson".

I feel that it satisfies my needs but I have run into a few people saying that someone from "higher up", be it an airline interview, the FAA, a judge in a lawsuit, etc....will not like this way at all.

 

[bobbysamd]

Remarks section

You are receiving good advice, actually. Feds, ALJs and airline interviewers are particularly detail-oriented. You can help yourself by being the same way.

I would write in detail everything covered during the flight. All the maneuvers and procedures worked on. In 141 flight school situations, I wrote in the particular unit number and then followed with everything covered in that unit. For cross countries, I would write in "x-c" and all procedures covered, such as pilotage, ded reckoning, flight following, diversion to alternate, etc. For instrument training, I'd write in the type and places of approaches the students practiced. If we did BAI, I wrote in BAI.

I kept such excruciating detail for a few reasons. Students lose logbooks, so I could use mine to reconstitute theirs, if necessary. I used my logbook as a record of instruction given. And, finally, if it ever came up, I could use my logbook to prove that I gave a student the requisite training if ever questioned.

One other point would be to use FAA-standard terminology appropriate to the certificate being trained. E.g., one certificate calls steep power turns "constant altitude turns" while another calls them "steep turns." That way there will be no doubt as to the instruction given and received during the flight. The PTS appropriate to the certificate would be the best source of the correct terminology.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I'm with Bobby on this one. I write down as much in the students logbook as I can. Anything that was covered, in the air or on the ground. COVER YOUR A$$! Nobody will do that for you. I do the same in my own logbook. It gives me a record to refer to for future reference.

Mr. I.

 

[flyf15]

In my student's logbooks, I leave very detailed remarks as to everything which occured during the flight. I'm concerned about what I write in my logbook.

So, I should be logging all the details of the lesson in my logbook instead of using a seperate set of documents for that? Would continuing to log everything on a seperate document and then accompanying my logbook with those be satisfactory?

Thanks guys!

 

[Lead Sled]

Yes you should definately document and detail each lesson in case your client ever has a problem and he or his heirs decide to come after you. It really doesn't matter whether it's simply dual given or other stuff like BFRs, ICCs, etc. The best system that I ever saw to document instructional activity used to be sold by Sportys, but I haven't seen it for a while. It was simply a carbonless two-part form with spaces to list in detail each activity performed during the period. It was then signed and dated by both the instructor and the student and the student was given a copy for his records and the instructor kept a copy for him/herself. This was in addition to the normal logbook entries. The beauty of this system is that you have a detailed, signed receipt listing every thing that you did. If you're ever in a positon to have to defend yourself in court or to the FAA you're covered.

Lead Sled

 

[BoDEAN]

wow,

In my logbook, I just put " Student name - PVT (if he's a private student"

Now I feel I am not being detailed enough

 

[SMOE]

I do the same as BoDEAN. I figure if someone really needs the nitty gritty, I'll dig out the students training records (141 ops).

 

[midlifeflyer]

There's a potential problem if you put detailed information in your student's logbook and then try to reproduce it later at home. It's bound to be different, especially if you are a busy CFI. If a question comes up, the discrepancies between the two can cause trouble.

I keep three records for every flight.

In my student's logbook, I only write in the minimum necessary to show that tasks that the FAR require be logged toward a certificate or rating have in fact been logged - essentially the focus of the lesson. (For those who say they If you think that's not enough, do =you= for example, put in preflight, start, run-up, taxi, takeoff, straight and level, turns in both directions, etc, etc in every logbook entry although they are covered and evaluated on every flight?)

In my logbook I only write the student's name in the remarks column.

The third piece is a kneeboard-sized, two-part carbonless form that contains boxes for all of the PTS tasks, like Sled decribed (although I worte this one myself). Depending on the nature of the instruction, I either check tasks off or grade them. And there's plenty of room at the bottom for comments. The student and I both sign the form and we each keep a copy.

If you're using a student progress folder like the ones offered by Jepp or ASA, then I think you have this third piece covered, although I use my sheets for all instruction except Discovery Flights.

 

[flyf15]

Mark, I am doing something very similar to what you have described, except I have not been giving copies of that "3rd piece" to the student or having them sign it. Maybe I should start that...

 

[7B2]

-David S.
-John P.
-Rick C.

Too much detail will get you screwed if you get sued.
What if you write down everyting but forget 1 thing, now the laywers will take you down on that.

Nope, not me, just the name and that's it in my book.

 

[jumppilot]

I'm with Bobby on this one. I write down as much in the students logbook as I can. Anything that was covered, in the air or on the ground. COVER YOUR A$$! Nobody will do that for you. I do the same in my own logbook. It gives me a record to refer to for future reference.

Mr. I.

You guys are missing the point. He asked what to put in HIS logbook...

As for my logbook, I only put the student's name and his rating going for.."Joe Schmoe - PVT"...I'm flying for a regional jet operator now. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[labbats]

In their logbook, I'd write (very small) what we did. Stalls, steep turns, VMC demo... yadda yadda.

In my logbook, I'd write their last name in the upper right corner, and repeat what I put in their logbook. Then, if room was left and something interesting happened (turtle on the runway, unexpected icing) I'd write it too. It's nice to look back and have a memory jogger.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Mark, I am doing something very similar to what you have described, except I have not been giving copies of that "3rd piece" to the student or having them sign it. Maybe I should start that...

Some might see it as a bit of overkill, but that extra acknowledgement by the student that "I received the above training" with duplicates is a nice touch to good basic recordkeeping. If you're already doing something like this, doing it in duplicate with signatures is a very simple extra step. Kinko's does the job pretty well. If you're interested in looking at mine, there's a picture here (excuse the pop-ups: it's not my regular web site, just one I use for extra materials).

http://midlifeflight.tripod.com/cfi_stuff/index.htm

 

[bobbysamd]

My logbook v. student's logbook

You guys are missing the point. He asked what to put in HIS logbook...

I would write up the flight in detail in the student's logbook and replicate everything I wrote in his/her logbook in my logbook.

 

[Booker]

Back when I instructed (Part 141), I would do what Bobby mentioned first, enter only the student's name and the course/lesson number in my logbook.

As for the students' logbooks, since it came up, it was just the course and lesson number and whether lesson was complete or incomplete. This is how the records department and the FSDO wanted it. YMMV in a Part 61 enironment.

 

[Spinn555]

Hehe-

In order to limit my liability, especially on BFR's that we not up to speed, (and believe me, there were a lot where I worked),


"Students performance below standards, due to poor <fill in the blank>


The "fill in the blank" portion could be any number of things...

...instruction from a previous instructor
...retention of basic skills and knowledge
and my favorite....
"...poor spin recovery technique during demonstration of steep turns."

No spoofing...I actually have that exact line in my book.

 

[Tired Soul]

Students logbook and mine reflect the same, just my problem is I'm usually at least 2 weeks behind filling mine in..

I try to keep things organized but I also beleive in redundancy in record keeping.
Student's logbook/ my logbook/ 141 records.
I agree with a previous post that too much recordkeeping starnge as it may sound will get you in trouble also, a lawyer will always find something.
Students logbook should contain everything in 61.87 at least once if not several times.

 

[350DRIVER]

Be detail oriented in the student's logbook. Write in all that was covered as well as if the flight was sat OR unsat. This can come into play if ever one of your student's is involved in an incident or accident.

The only thing I would write in mine (CFI's log) was student's full name and type of instruction given to them. ex>> private pilot flight instruction given to Mr. Jack Mihoff which included .5 of ground.

No need to write a novel it is pointless, never had mine questioned at any part 135 or 121 interview. The above example is more than good enough and will satisfy what the airline wants/expects to see.

"Your" flight instruction history (time spent as a CFI),what you covered with your students, and what you wrote in your remarks sections is one of the last things that an airline will be looking for when they are going through your logbooks, just doesn't happen my friend.

"Overkill" is not always good and it can be just as bad as writing nothing in the remarks section. You are not writing up a cardiology report for a patient that is about to have open heart surgery.

Less is better sometimes, this is a perfect example.


3 5 0

 

[airksk]

Personally, I never put anything in mine except the students name and the type of instruction taking place, i.e. commercial maneuvers, pre-solo training, etc... In their log I wrote everything we did. Of course, it was a 141 school, and I had the training records and notes in the school's log as well in the event anyone questioned what had taken place. No one has ever asked for more detail in my log in an interview(not that I've had many), so I don't think a novel is needed.

 

[BoDEAN]

I have been very lazy with keeping records of the students at the flight school. We are 141, but the vast majority of my students are 61. I am trying to fill out the JEPP folders for them, even though they are part 61.
Is this a good idea? Or should I just keep a spreadsheet for each student and keep a copy on my pocketpc, showing what we have/haven't covered per lesson? Right now I just basically use the Jepp sylabus, and go through it for each lesson with the student, make it in his logbook, and when i feel it is complete, move on to the next lesson (But I am way behind on keeping a physical record of this).