What do we have to do?

[iahawkeye]

I know that foreign carriers are having their own problems, but overall it seems that they are doing much better than those here in the U.S. Any insight to why.

 

[Captain X]

Government subsidies......and CEOs, etc. who know how to run a successful company and not blame their failures on their workers (labor).

 

[nosewheel]

Take a ride on a foreign Carrier and you will see why. The SERVICE is better and FREINDLIER and they still have free FOOD !!! Eg: I rode on Kuwait airlines ( coach) a few months back and it was by far WAY better than UNITED's, DELTA,NWA's FIRST CLASS. It reminded me of flying first class in the 70's and 80's. Also, I think the general traveling public are a little scared and, don't like the hassle's of checking in (TSA). I must admit though that even places in Europe we ( crewmembers)travel by Train once in a while, just to avoid the hassles going through the airports.

 

[iahawkeye]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your point nosewheel, but I don't think giving everyone first class service will fix our problems in the states. From what I understand security in the US (which may be considered poor and inefficient) is actually not that much of a hassle compared to other countries. Pilots who fly for countries in the Middle East, Europe, and Asia are treated like kings, and compensated very well for their services (it’s my understanding some airlines let the pilots request what they want for dinner before the flight, even if its not served). So if its not long security lines, if its not labor cost, high fuel cost are affecting everyone world wide, what’s the problem. I understand management sucks right now. What successful and intelligent CEO wouldn't think twice about getting into aviation? So what’s going to happen, where is everything honestly going to go? Are teachers going to be telling lazy and unruly kids one day, that if they don't shape up and start trying hard in school, they are going to one-day end up being an airline pilot? Seems like we are slowly headed that way.

 

[nosewheel]

iahawkeye

I guess my point is we need to make flying FUN and an adventure again for the Pax. Stand around a ticket counter or gate area for a few hours or the baggage service counter and listen. The flying public are pissed off alot more than ever!!! I have personally been bumped/cancelled/ bags lost etc. more times this past year than ever in my career. I don't know what the answer is but, these so called CEO's better get there act together cause it's going down hill fast!! By the way, I did fly for two years for Saudia and also an African airline and will agree, the crews are treated much differently than here in the US however, in the old days US flight crews were like God's and treated much the same.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I know that foreign carriers are having their own problems, but overall it seems that they are doing much better than those here in the U.S. Any insight to why.

That is a pretty general question. My answer wouldn't apply to all foreign carriers, but for some it does. Carriers like Emirates, Cathay, Singapore and to a lesser extent Lufthansa, Air France, and BA operate services in restricted market places. They may be only allowed one daily or two daily services between certain city pairs. This makes it easier to compete because it is also probably capacity contolled ( like India ). Passengers don't have many choices and there are generally only enough seats on the market to make sure the aircraft are pretty full. Some transatlantic and transpacific routes have U.S. competition, but, as was alluded to earlier, the foreign carriers tend to win on service.

The large foreign carriers have also figured out that cargo is big business and very profitable. Most have dedicated cargo aircraft and some ( Emirates, Cathay, and Singapore ) are widebody fleet only. Emirates flies across the Tasman from Brisbane, Melbourne, and Sydney to Auckland with pretty crappy load factors, but the routes are very profitable since the amount of cargo carried is enormous.

Labor costs would be another factor as the aformentioned three come in significantly lower than the U.S. majors.

Some are subsidized but most are not, so that is not a valid argument. You could argued that they are protected by their government's allocation of routes to other carrriers but in general the days of outright subsidies are over.

I'm sure I've missed some good points but I don't have an MBA yet.

TP

 

[Snakum]

Government subsidies

Not to tick off you guys from the majors and nationals, but haven't our US airlines, also, been sucking the government teat here in the US?

And while I haven't had the kind of bad experiences I've heard from others here as a pax, I have been on the receiving end of a couple pretty rude FAs at US Air Express. But you're probably right. Over all, service and on-time performance probably is sucking wind, which is affecting folk's willingness to travel to a small extent, despite the VERY low fares. But also, the fact that many families are struggling for basic necessities in the current economy means less money for vacations, trips to grandma's, etc.

But that just my $.02 ... and that's about all it's worth.

Minh