What are the chances

[adamleeanp]

I've tried talking to any and every AF person I can find, short of stopping people on the street (which i have done in some cases) what are the chances on getting into UTP after college. I have a 3.8 GPA, my A&P license, almost done with my Private Pilots License, good community service record, and am going to the CITADEL. Am I missing anything??? I would love some advice from anyone that has just finished UTP or has done it right after ROTC. Thanks a lot

Signed,
One nail chewing, wannabe/hope to be pilot

 

[galaxy5]

adamleeanp,

Are you in ROTC at the Citadel? Those would be the first people I'd talk to out there. I think your chances of getting a pilot slot (at UPT, not UTP) would be better through ROTC then to graduate and apply to OTS.

Good luck.

 

[GasPasser]

Go Guard. Forget AD USAF. With the force drawdown they are going to cut way back on UPT slots, many will end up in UAVs. Do a google on BRAC, find out who are the ones going to UAVs or loosing their airplanes and chase the others. For ANG leads go to Baseops.net Good luck.

 

[Deuce130]

I've tried talking to any and every AF person I can find, short of stopping people on the street (which i have done in some cases) what are the chances on getting into UTP after college. I have a 3.8 GPA, my A&P license, almost done with my Private Pilots License, good community service record, and am going to the CITADEL. Am I missing anything??? I would love some advice from anyone that has just finished UTP or has done it right after ROTC. Thanks a lot

Signed,
One nail chewing, wannabe/hope to be pilot

For someone who goes to a military school, you sure don't seem to know much about getting into UPT. Have you tried to talking to the AF ROTC people at your school??

 

[CX880]

My neighbor in an airline flight turned out to be an AF academy junior. He said that most of the pilots in the military are from the military academies. There's very little chance for Rotc and OTs guys, they get the crumbs left over from slots the academy guys don't want. Expect to fly a desk for a few years. Sounds like you're a smart guy but sometimes we can't have everything in life, there's nothing wrong with civilian flying. I went through ROTC for 1 year in HS. Found that there is very little chance of making it as a military pilot and left ROTC after that.

 

[Deuce130]

Not exactly true. While it's true AFA cadets get a greater amount of slots allocated, there are slots allocated specifically for ROTC and OTS, slots that are designated before Academy grads have a chance to turn them down. Noone is getting anyone else's crumbs. It's too bad it didn't work out for you, but I wouldn't advise anyone to give up after 1 year of HS ROTC. Starting as a 9th grader, that's at least a 9 year journey to AF UPT, a long time to make things happen.

 

[jstock]

I'm upset to find out that my pilot slot was just the "crumbs" that the AFA didn't want:bawling: .

The fact is that this last year AFROTC had more pilot slots than the AFA. I would agree that you would be best getting it out of the citadel. Probably a higher chance through there than OTS. Usually AFROTC alots 500ish slots a year. Basically the top half.

Best of luck

 

[SIG600]

The proverbial "what are my chances...."

Dude no one can tell you definitivley what your chances are. The best thing you can do is apply to everyone you think you'd want to fly for (branches, guard, reserve, etc.) and pray to get accepted. Then enjoy the ride with where ever you go, cuz nothing you fly in the military is gonna suck.

 

[psysicx]

Is AD that bad? It must be nice to that retirement check in your forties.

 

[Jafar]

My neighbor in an airline flight turned out to be an AF academy junior. He said that most of the pilots in the military are from the military academies. There's very little chance for Rotc and OTs guys, they get the crumbs left over from slots the academy guys don't want. Expect to fly a desk for a few years. Sounds like you're a smart guy but sometimes we can't have everything in life, there's nothing wrong with civilian flying. I went through ROTC for 1 year in HS. Found that there is very little chance of making it as a military pilot and left ROTC after that.

I would disregard just about everything in the above paragraph. Most of the pilots in the military ARE NOT from military academies. If all you are looking at is shear numbers in the definition of "most" then most military pilots are warrant officers in the Army. Furthermore, most pilots in the Air Force now come from AFROTC, as jstock just stated. AFROTC has an overall pilot acceptance rate of around 65%. OTS is more competitive, but still accepts over 50% of they're pilot applicants on average. The Marines have the highest percentage of officers who are pilots (per capita), and most of them come from the PLC program. I'm not sure what the deal is with the navy but I'm certain the vast majority of their aviators are not academy grads. I'm confident I'll have a slot in the next 6 months and I sure as hell didn't graduate from any academy. In my unit, I'd say less than 20% of the pilots did. Follow your dreams. Don't let this type of misguided information send you astray.

 

[mudkow60]

CX.. .

Have to say that is one of the most ignorant things I have seen posted on this section of FI.

My 2c's...

 

[AdlerDriver]

CX.. .

Have to say that is one of the most ignorant things I have seen posted on this section of FI.

My 2c's...

Ditto - from an AFROTC "crumb"..... I mean Eagle Driver.

 

[stonewall]

Join ROTC at the Citadel. Go Active Duty. Guard UPT slots are VERY hard to come by right now, regardless of what anyone says. Yes, it worked out for the guy telling you to go Guard, but for every one of him there are about a 100 that don't get a Guard UPT slot.

You can join the Guard later once your commitment is up. With very, very rare exceptions, you will be a better pilot after flying 8-10 yrs on AD than you will after flying 8-10 years in a Guard unit.

 

[AdlerDriver]

.......With very, very rare exceptions, you will be a better pilot after flying 8-10 yrs on AD than you will after flying 8-10 years in a Guard unit.

Not trying to start a holy war here, Magnum. Just wondering if you might expand on this thought with some specifics because it does not reflect my experience at all.

 

[Scrapdog]

In backing up Magnum and being an AD Eagle guy and now an ANG Viper driver, I can say the one big advantage of learning to fly fighters in the active duty is the diversity you get with respect to your IP's, SEFE's, etc. In active duty with a 2 to 3 year PCS rotation as it currently is - during your time flying fighters, you'll probably fly with IP's from multiple bases around the globe with different techniques, tactical viewpoints, and so forth. If you're learning to be a finely tuned killing machine in the guard, most of the time you're working with IP's who have been there multiple years and probably won't be leaving for quite a few to come. Bottom Line - the diversity in your learning will be much greater with AD.Now is the guard full of talent? Of course...and a lot of guys I fly with now are extremely sharp and very experienced. However, learning to be a wingman, 2 ship flight lead, 4 ship flight lead, etc. as a young pup was more beneficial in the breadth and depth in regards to your learning coming from the active duty.

 

[CCDiscoB]

...chances on getting into UTP after college. I have a 3.8 GPA...

You have two options:
1. OTS, I'm not sure how many slots they have these days but you sound like perfect candidate.

2. Sign up for both a Master's program, to keep yourself ROTC eligible, and the two year ROTC program. If you don't get your slot, go to OTS.

 

[RickKC-135]

CCDisco gave the best advice. If you make the AF a career you will have to get a masters at some point, so why not now. Two things to remember. One, the two year ROTC program comes with a commitment to the AF (whereas the four year program does not, until the two year point) and two, the AF will not make you commit until you have a training slot, in something. I have seen some guys get a commitment to one career field with the promise of a pilot slot at a later date. Guess what, once they have you, there is no reason for the commanders to switch it. Yes it can be done (I did it), but don't fall in the trap. If you go with the two year ROTC program, make sure you have a pilot slot in writing, and yes the AF puts everything in writing.

OTS will work also, but like I said above, make sure you have a pilot slot in writing before you commit.

And that guy who said all the slots go to the academies is full of BS. The AF allocates a certain amount of slots to each path, based on how many officers they commision from each path. Going to an academy does nothing for your career, or chances to be a pilot, except get you a free education.

For what it's worth, if you sign up for the commitment and then don't follow through with graduating and getting your commision you still own the AF the time you signed up for. Had a guy in my ROTC class who didn't complete college. The PAS had the SPs go get him and they sent him to Lackland for basic training and he became a SP/Cop at FE Warren AFB in Wyoming.

 

[Korgs130]

"And that guy who said all the slots go to the academies is full of BS. The AF allocates a certain amount of slots to each path, based on how many officers they commision from each path. Going to an academy does nothing for your career, or chances to be a pilot, except get you a free education."

RickKC135, that statement isn't quite true. I've posted this year's UPT split between USAFA, ROTC/OTS and ANG/AFR on other threads. This year the Academy got 540 UPT slots for about that many pilot qualified (PQ) cadets with just under 1000 cadets graduating. 144 ROTC detachments will commission 2,405 officers and OTS will commission another 700. I don’t have any info on how many are PQ, but they will split up roughly 460 slots plus what ever the Academy doesn’t fill. The ANG/AFR will get about 300 slots. If you graduate this year from the Academy and you are PQ, you get to go to UPT. While USAFA commissions around 25% of active duty officers, they get around 50% of the pilot slots. I'm not saying one route is better than the other, but I think it is important to look at how the slots are divided up when making decision.

 

[Scrapdog]

And going to the Academy always will help you out in some way down the road - it may not be for UPT or assignments, but it never hurts to network with all the bro's and friends you make while at the Academy that you'll run into time and time again both in the Air Force and in the civilian world alike.

 

[stonewall]

And going to the Academy always will help you out in some way down the road - it may not be for UPT or assignments, but it never hurts to network with all the bro's and friends you make while at the Academy that you'll run into time and time again both in the Air Force and in the civilian world alike.

Shack. At least ten '95ers (KTP!) at FDX over the last 2 years, and all of us helped each other get hired. Plus, if you decide to go the non-flying route, there are a ton of head-hunters out there that cater to service academy grads. Bad place to be at, great place to be from.

 

[positiveg]

If I was to pay for my own college and do ROTC, would I have a commitment afterwards or not? Could I do ROTC while I pay for college then "chose" to comission if I am offered a pilot slot?

Also, would doing ROTC help the chances of me getting a UPT slot with the ANG afterwards?

 

[hawaii_boy]

Don't be a btch tell me how to get a a pilot job.

 

[RickKC-135]

To answer a couple of the above post. Yes the academy gets a higher percentage of the pilot slots. I never said they didn't, just that the other routes offer them too, and they are not the "scraps" left over from the academy. As far as networking, yes the "zoo" has great networking, but do you think networking doesn't occur at A&M, Citadel, VMI, Harvard, Yale, etc.

As far as commitments go. If you do a four year ROTC program there is no commitment until the last two years. If you do the two year program the commitment to the AF starts the first day you show up for the ROTC class. There is a summer camp you must go to before this class, I don't know if the commitment starts there, but I don't think so. Be sure to ask the ROTC guys about that one.

No you can't just pay for college and do ROTC simultaneously and not have a commitment to the AF. If that's the path you want to take it's called OTS. With this path you finish college then go to OTS. Like said before, if you want to go any of these routes, make sure you have the pilot slot before you sign up.

Guy's this is not an academy vs. ROTC/OTS slam, sorry if I made it sound that way. The guy asking for advice was almost complete with school, so what's the point of advertising the academy route.

 

[positiveg]

As far as commitments go. If you do a four year ROTC program there is no commitment until the last two years. If you do the two year program the commitment to the AF starts the first day you show up for the ROTC class. There is a summer camp you must go to before this class, I don't know if the commitment starts there, but I don't think so. Be sure to ask the ROTC guys about that one.

No you can't just pay for college and do ROTC simultaneously and not have a commitment to the AF. If that's the path you want to take it's called OTS. With this path you finish college then go to OTS. Like said before, if you want to go any of these routes, make sure you have the pilot slot before you sign up.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[tomgoodman]

If I was to pay for my own college and do ROTC, would I have a commitment afterwards or not? Could I do ROTC while I pay for college then "chose" to comission if I am offered a pilot slot?

Also, would doing ROTC help the chances of me getting a UPT slot with the ANG afterwards?

It sounds like you would not particularly enjoy serving in the military as a non-rated officer. Fair enough---most of us probably felt the same way. But if such a fate is absolutely unacceptable to you, better not join up. About 30% of my UPT class washed out, and still had a commitment. Then there's the possibility of a non-flying assignment AFTER you get your wings, if the "needs of the service" dictate. Rarely, you may be "grounded" for some medical item that an FAA physical would have ignored.

If you're offered a UPT slot, by all means grab it. Just be aware that there are no "guarantees" once you start training.

 

[positiveg]

It sounds like you would not particularly enjoy serving in the military as a non-rated officer. Fair enough---most of us probably felt the same way. But if such a fate is absolutely unacceptable to you, better not join up. About 30% of my UPT class washed out, and still had a commitment. Then there's the possibility of a non-flying assignment AFTER you get your wings, if the "needs of the service" dictate. Rarely, you may be "grounded" for some medical item that an FAA physical would have ignored.

If you're offered a UPT slot, by all means grab it. Just be aware that there are no "guarantees" once you start training.

Well, considering I'm thinking about enlisting in the ANG prior to applying to an ANG pilot slot, I'm sure I have no problem serving the country and being an officer/enlistee first before anything else. I'd be bummed if I went in as a pilot and was assigned something afterwards. But if it is in the ANG I wouldn't mind at all.

 

[stonewall]

Not trying to start a holy war here, Magnum. Just wondering if you might expand on this thought with some specifics because it does not reflect my experience at all.

You see more as an AD guy. At least 2-3 assignments, several different ranges, several different exercises, countless other dudes flown with with varying experience levels, more situations, tougher upgrades.

Your experience may be different in your unit, and that's fine. It's just not what I've seen. When I compare a 10 year all Guard guy to a 10 year Guard guy with 8 of them on AD in all fighter assignments, I see two different products. Yes, it depends alot on the individual. However, with two guys with the same skill level, I think the AD guy will be more well rounded. I'm not saying that it's true in your case...it may not be. And it may not be true with regard to heavy drivers. I can't comment on that. However, there's a reason my unit will only hire from AD these days.

 

[AdlerDriver]

You see more as an AD guy. At least 2-3 assignments, several different ranges, several different exercises, countless other dudes flown with with varying experience levels, more situations, tougher upgrades.

Your experience may be different in your unit, and that's fine. It's just not what I've seen. When I compare a 10 year all Guard guy to a 10 year Guard guy with 8 of them on AD in all fighter assignments, I see two different products. Yes, it depends alot on the individual. However, with two guys with the same skill level, I think the AD guy will be more well rounded. I'm not saying that it's true in your case...it may not be. And it may not be true with regard to heavy drivers. I can't comment on that. However, there's a reason my unit will only hire from AD these days.

I guess it depends on the unit to some degree. We hire outstanding AD dudes with the variety of experiences you list that are clearly valuable. You can't put a 4-ship together that doesn't have at least 8000 hours between the dudes unless you plan it well. However, my guard unit has done more Flags, overseas deployments, contingency ops and generally top-notch training deployments than I ever saw in three AD squadrons and the FTU.
My point is: When we do get a true Guard baby (we've only had 3 in the 8+ years I've been there) - they have ended up head and shoulders above their peers on AD. Earlier 2FL, 4FL and MC upgrades and a cadre of 2000-3000 hour bubbas to keep him straight.

The big thing is the Guard baby can't go part time too early. If he doesn't spend ~8 years and ~1500 hours in the above environment b/4 becoming a traditional part timer, then I agree with you.

 

[TankerDriver]

The ANG vs. AD debate is very airframe dependant. It seems as though you're getting advice from mainly a fighter pilot perspective and while it's important to get advice from every community you can, your chances of going to a fighter is probably 25-30%. This is not to discourage you, but really the reality of it all and you didn't even say you wanted fighters to begin with. I guess it was just assumed. If flying fighters is what you want, then going AD may be the better choice. However, I can tell you from a tanker perspective that going to the ANG or Reserves is the better choice. You will get more training from more experienced IP's and see more places around the world with a tanker guard unit than you would going to one of the AD super-tanker bases. You'll get more variety. Of course there is Kadena and Mildenhall who do their own thing, but as far as the stateside super-tanker bases go, the majority of your TDY's and flying will be in the desert *right now*. Takeoff, orbit/give gas for 5-6 hours, come back and do one to a full stop. We spend so much time over there that local training is often hindered. We barely get the min training required in a 6 month semester and the reason for that is when you come home from your deployment, you're back into your squadron job doing your "additional duties" and fly 2-3 times a month. In a 6 month semester, you may only be at your home station 2-3 months before deploying again. The problem with this is that a lot of our aircraft commanders and IP's got a lot of quick flight time from our desert deployments, which sent them to upgrade quicky, but not a lot of experience with anything else. Not so in the guard.

There are also many other roles the tanker plays in the wonderful world of Air Mobility Command that you will see more in the guard than you will on AD. Again, *right now*. In a tanker guard unit, you'll fly 1-2 times a week and pick up a trip or two every month. Your job as a part time pilot with a tanker guard unit is to fly airplanes and oh by the way, you can fly airplanes as a civilian while you're flying in the guard. Of course the benefits are different, which is a whole other discussion.