What ALPA Should Be Doing

[jetstream]

I am certainly no expert but it appears to me that the best thing ALPA could do for all its members is to lobby congress to amend the Railway Labor Act so as to make it a level playing field. If my current understanding of it is correct it is heavily weighted in favor of management. I understand that when it was enacted one of its goals was to prevent the country's transportation system from being shutdown in the event of a strike. At least as far as the airline industry is concerned there are enough airlines that the country would not be brought to its knees if one or two of them went on strike.

It's hard to win a game of poker when the deck has been stacked against you!

 

[pianoman]

I totally agree, but with the makeup of the group in office, I don't think it would be for the better. Big Labor is not very popular with much of the country and I don't see Republicans making it easier for us to strike.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The very first thing ALPA should do is follow its own Constitution and Bylaws.

ALPA should restore the definition of "operational integration" and start fighting alter ego, bringing pilots together so we can bargain collectively.

ALPA should revise its structure to have an independent Judiciary providing checks and balances on power so that one MEC can not hijack the union and use it to prey on other pilot groups.

ALPA should be transparent, information should flow freely and together there should be one, uniform, national negotiating agenda. Pilots should be brought together to restore this profession as a strong, cohesive, national force. ALPA National should not approve any contract which seeks to subvert the negotiations of another ALPA pilot group.

ALPA should fight to combine lists at airlines where there is significant operatinal integration. No more pilots competing against pilots, in a race for the bottom.

 

[uba757]

My opinion is that ALPA an kiss my A$$. Im not only a spokesman, I am also a member for anyone that wants to ask. UBA757

 

[mrnolmts]

The very first thing ALPA should do is follow its own Constitution and Bylaws.

ALPA should restore the definition of "operational integration" and start fighting alter ego, bringing pilots together so we can bargain collectively.

ALPA should revise its structure to have an independent Judiciary providing checks and balances on power so that one MEC can not hijack the union and use it to prey on other pilot groups.

ALPA should be transparent, information should flow freely and together there should be one, uniform, national negotiating agenda. Pilots should be brought together to restore this profession as a strong, cohesive, national force. ALPA National should not approve any contract which seeks to subvert the negotiations of another ALPA pilot group.

ALPA should fight to combine lists at airlines where there is significant operatinal integration. No more pilots competing against pilots, in a race for the bottom.

Couldn't agree more. Cheers!

 

[pilotyip]

The unions do not need more power, they have too much already with highly leveraged airlines, and airlines badly needed daily cash flow. All the union has to do is withhold their service and airline will be near chap 7 liquidation in a short period. So the airline gives a contract that they know they can not sustain in hard times just to start the cash flow started again. The airlines are at the mercy of the Internet and the consumer’s money that flows to the low cost carriers. Unions can not modify the basic of the marketplace. This is still a great career, where else can high school grads count on making a $100K by his mid-30's

 

[Guitar Guy]

The system needs checks and balances. Unsustainable contracts are bad for arilnes, but bad management shouldn't be paid for by the workers, be they pilots, F/A's, mechanics or non-union employees.

As for making $100K at around age 35, those jobs are getting to be fewer and fewer in the current airline climate. We can all hope and pray that better days are ahead for everyone.

 

[pilotyip]

Guitar, here is an idea. ALPA should start and airline and then pay top dollar for top managment. That would work, then the pilots would have direct input to the airline's managment, and the airline should thrive, because pilots are experts on bad management. Why they could pick it out in a hearteat and stop it before it damaged the airline.

 

[AviatorTx]

As far as the RLA...

1. It does suck when times are good and you are trying to negotiate a new contract. Yes, the deck is stacked towards Management.

2. In a concessionary environment such as the one we are in, the RLA is our friend. It prevents Managements from just walking in and imposing pay cuts. Just like we have to beg and plead to get more money, Management has to beg and plead to take it back from us.

ALPA??? The regionals out there that are teamsters and non-union are experiencing the SAME problems as the ALPA ones.

Whats the problem??? The problem is all of the golden sperm boys and girls out there still willing to do this job for peanuts. You know who they (you) are; "I don't need to make money doing this.. It's FUN! I just want to fly!!! Yaaaaaaay!"

When are one of our pilot groups going to have the testicular fortitude to say "NO" to a concessionary package?

Al I know if that I hope the Comair folks can hold the line. At XJT, we have not been asked (yet). My answer will not be "no" if asked... It will be "Fuc* NO!".

 

[~~~^~~~]

This is still a great career, where else can high school grads count on making a $100K by his mid-30's

You are nuts. Name one airline where there is a sub 30 year old high school grad making 100K a year (excepting cases where daddy was the Chief Pilot, or her husband is a Chief Pilot). Pilots can not take self help options without first giving the company years of their abeyance while the Company operates in bad faith. We are three years into our contract and management just gave us their "opener" while they continue to violate our past agreement on a daily basis.

Besides what is a DA-20? Are you a Check Captain on one of those plastic Katina thingies? Or do you mean one of those really old French aft fan powered thingies?

I know some of the under thirty year old pilots who will make $100,000 and all have at least a bachelor's degree and most attended "the Academy," and I don't mean Comair Academy, I mean the trade schools run by the US Air Force and Navy. Even so, the number is very low. I have better odds of become a guitarist for the Rolling Stones.

 

[uba757]

Pilotyip you are so wrong. If you go work for EVA or JAL or ANA etc they will pay you 5000.00 to start and they seem to make it OK. United, US Air, Delta etc all have one main problem. CEO's that dont know what the FFFFFF-ck they are doing. They sell hedges, buy back stock, park airplanes that are perfectly good money makers, create alter-egos, create 20 different business plans that dont work for $hit in one year. Hey as I posted before I want ALPA to kiss my A$$. Alpa has not been able to unite all of us pilots into one strong powerfull group, one group that would be able to work on contracts and benefits toguether for thebenefit of all of us. UBA757

 

[jbDC9]

This is still a great career, where else can high school grads count on making a $100K by his mid-30's.

You've posted this line so many times it's starting to sound like a broken record... over and over and over and over.

 

[FDJ2]

I am certainly no expert but it appears to me that the best thing ALPA could do for all its members is to lobby congress to amend the Railway Labor Act so as to make it a level playing field. If my current understanding of it is correct it is heavily weighted in favor of management. I understand that when it was enacted one of its goals was to prevent the country's transportation system from being shutdown in the event of a strike. At least as far as the airline industry is concerned there are enough airlines that the country would not be brought to its knees if one or two of them went on strike.

It's hard to win a game of poker when the deck has been stacked against you!

I hope you support ALPA-PAC. If you want to lobby Congress, you need $$$.

 

[FDJ2]

The very first thing ALPA should do is follow its own Constitution and Bylaws.

ALPA does follow it's C&BLs, you just don't happen to agree with them. How's that PID to integrate the Skywest/ASA list going? Have you filed it yet, if not, why not?

 

[Publishers]

To say the RLA is heavily weighed for management would not be agreed to by anyone. The thing is not even really apprpo for the airline business nor the 21st century.

 

[Pinkslip]

Protect the profession?

Protect the profession! That is what they should do!

 

[uba757]

Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!UBA757

 

[pilotyip]

jbDC-9, some one has to post positive news about this career to offset all the negative vibes generated by many of posters on this site. I will continue to post it whenever I sense the negative vibes without solutions creeping into the site.

 

[pilotyip]

Uba757, comparing apples and oranges, those are all wide body int'l ops, completely different cost structure than DAL, UAL, etc. They fly long routes have only a few gates worldewide, and probably a lower employee per RSM than anyone in the business. Again no one has the answer how you find the skill or knowledge to run an airline. We only see negative vibes of management sucks with no solutions.

 

[~~~^~~~]

PilotYip:

Thanks for your PM. I stand corrected. Cargo is where it is at, apparently. All the under 30, $100K club members I know are at Fed Ex and UPS.

For those of us flying passengers, our careers have been in free fall ever since ALPA decided to go along with the "portfolio" of carriers concept that gives management the option of running our scope blockade whenever they want. Growth lowers fixed costs, so our carriers have grown beyond the market's ability to adequately support their business models and now we are in cut throat competition to see who survives. Pilot wages are insignificant in the equation of operating a $3,500 per hour jet, but management sees us as a convenient target. Employees for all of our outfits are expendable $7 to $10 labor. Only the pilots put up a fight to improve their lot in life.

Years ago I had a chance to view confidential accounting data for one of the largest regional carriers (not mine). What struck me was that the airline was a ponzi scheme. It needed new airplanes and new crews to keep the costs down. If the airline stagnated at the current fleet size it would fail as costs went up with seniority. So, on a local level it was "grow or die."

Comair is a well run airline with good, productive, employees. However, they may have committed the deadly sin of stagnating for a year, or two, in relation to their competition. How cargo carriers have avoided this fate, I dunno. Perhaps it is because boxes make a more stable customer base that is not surfing Orbitz for the best deal and your airlines are not run by guys who can't see past next quarter. Glad that you found a good niche to be in. Those are rare these days.

 

[uba757]

Pilotyid those carriers are paying the same for gas or depending where they are located in the world more than US carriers, Most of those carriers have to buy dollars in the respective countries markets. The FO's are making $5000 to $6000 a month to start, Captains $9000 to $10000 a month to start, many of these carriers also pay for your housing and the school for your children, Per-Diem is 3 to 4 times what we make here in the states, The service offered on their flights is 30 times better than what US carriers offer on theirs and that is very sad. It is getting worst out there for us. The guys at ExpressJet now also have to worry about our back stabbing A$$ hole ALPA "brothers" at MESA. ALPA sucks because they are not loyal to any one pilot group so they just go from contract to contract screwing other pilot groups without even thinking of the consequences to others.

 

[scarlet]

WHAT has ALPA done for anyone LATELY 5 years???

Alpa and Delta had a chance, hey lets make it one company from ATR's to 777, Comair ASA making money which would have been Delta's. One list, all of Delta's pilots would still be flying today. BUT NO We don't want that--JOB sercurity--give those low life regional guys a seniority number.. VERY VERY SMART..

 

[DwayneWorthless]

ALPA is looking out for the interest of Legacy carriers only. Are you guys blind or just stupid? We've been screwing you guys forever and you still don't get it. Your 2% is nothing to the 2% of the BIG GUYS. Get over it or try to fight your Management without our Money and Resources. Once you start making Real money, we'll take up your cause.

 

[AviatorTx]

ALPA sucks because they are not loyal to any one pilot group so they just go from contract to contract screwing other pilot groups without even thinking of the consequences to others.

Chiniqua and Skywest are not ALPA either, yet Chiniqua is undercutting everyone else too. This is not an ALPA exclusive problem.

Again I say, until you can close a few flight schools, and prevent the new golden sperm kids jumping at the chance to fly for lower and even lower wages, nothing is going to change. As long as there "qualified" people lined up at the door willing to do this job for less, we are screwed.

The only other possible solution would be to FORCE ALL regional carriers to become union, and ONLY ONE union at that. Then a minimum wage could be established per seat type. Lets face it... This is not going to happen. Without a single union, and everyone having to be union, it is a pipe dream at best. I am not saying it HAS to be ALPA, but it has to be someone.

 

[scarlet]

What I think is funny is there are so many pilots that just love the Repulbican party and vote for them everytime,

But hate them when they do not back their union up? FYI the Rep.s are for the CEOs the BOards not us low lifes doing the dirty work,,, remember you hurts you worst when you vote. Look at us now

I did not vote for clinton either time but he did let NW pilots strike as long as they wanted...

 

[scarlet]

remember who

 

[surplus1]

Comair is a well run airline with good, productive, employees. However, they may have committed the deadly sin of stagnating for a year, or two, in relation to their competition.

Yes, Comair does have good, productive employees. However, I must differ with you somewhat on who has sinned. Comair didn't commit any "sins". Comair was "acquired" and ALL of the "sins" were committed by Delta after that acquisition. It took them five years to destroy the best little airline in America. That wasn't done by Comair people, it was done by Delta management. Along the way they managed to destroy Delta itself. ALL of the people that need to be tarred and feathered either used to reside in ATL or still do.

I can't go without mentioning that the stupidity of Delta management has been aided, abetted and equalled from day one by the stupidity of ALPA management. Their "policies" have not saved one "mainline" job but they most certainly have contributed to the screwing of thousands of regional pilots.

We of Comair know who the "sinners" really are.

 

[michael707767]

I can't go without mentioning that the stupidity of Delta management has been aided, abetted and equalled from day one by the stupidity of ALPA management. Their "policies" have not saved one "mainline" job but they most certainly have contributed to the screwing of thousands of regional pilots.

we will never know for sure how many mainline jobs have been saved or not saved. For all you know, the destruction of mainline jobs would have been worse if not for the admittedly pathetic scope we have.

 

[surplus1]

Chiniqua and Skywest are not ALPA either, yet Chiniqua is undercutting everyone else too. This is not an ALPA exclusive problem.

I think you may have overlooked a few facts. The conditions that casued MESA pilots to give up almost everything fighting Freedom were directly created by the policies of ALPA. Republic came into existence as a response to the policies of ALPA, causing the CHQ group to accept a substandard contract. In turn this resulted in concessions at SKYW, AWAC, ACA, and, etc.

ALPA was the first to "undercut" the wages of the 70-seat market by its actions at USAirways. In the process, ALPA screwed ALG, PDT and PSA. Jet Blue's low-ball pay rates for the E-190 can be traced directly to ALPA's low-ball rates for the E-170 at USAir. Both have forced the loss of pay at the ALPA regional carriers and the acceptance of lower pay rates at several majors.

SKYW and CHQ are not "ALPA carriers" it is true, but they have been forced into those scenarios by ALPA policies. The alter-ego airlines in place today are the direct result of ALPA's actions, which management was only too happy to take advantage of.