WestWind Type

[Flooder305]

Anyone recently complete a Westwind (1124) type at FlightSafety? Any info/advice/difficulties are what I'm curious about. Thanks.

 

[hawkerjet]

It's been a while but there aren't too many gotchas with this plane. Pretty straight forward. The one thing that sticks out is that the when you finish the sim and get in the aircraft, you really have to get a feel for how heavy the nose is. My first rotation in that plane was about a thousand feet from where Vr was called and I was pulling the moment I heard it. Landings, well you can forget about greasers, they'll come with time, so be patient.
There was something about being at FL 450 and bringing power to idle for descent, I think it had to do with pressurization... well I'll let someone with a better memory handle that.
I realize this has nothing to do with training at FSI but I hope to get the ball rolling.... good luck with training.

 

[SpaceBall 1]

I've been out of the jet since 03, but FSI was always great. The jet itself is more stable than the sim and quite heavy on the controls. Ditto on the rotation with what hawkerjet said. It's very heavy on rotation, especially if anyone is on the couch. You have to pull hard, but smoothly. It'll come really quick after a few takeoffs.

Landing it is a different story. I'd have months of thumpers then months of greasers. It must have something to do with the phase of the moon and solar flares. I'd trim nose up all the way through the flare till touchdown. That helped alot.

Concerning leaving altitiude. The bleed switching valves (BSV's) are slow to react. Couple that with a leaky cabin and you can really cause some pain and suffering on pax. Two WW's I flew you could not do idle descents above FL350. The last one was tight as a drum. Just bring the power back slowly and give the valves time to move.

Be careful on circling approaches. Those got me on edge more than normal. You're typically circling around 145-150kias minimum and eating up ground quickly. Couple that with somewhat limited visibilty out the windows and things can get dicey quickly. Good CRM will save the day there.

It's truly a great jet though. For the acquisition price, nothing beats it. Flaps 0 takeoffs heavy, high and hot are a interesting to say the least. You really get a sense of the speed with you butt only 3 feet or so off the ground.

 

[Mitsipilot]

I just got done with recurrent. Great guys teaching the program up there. You wont have any problem! Its a good airplane that I bet you will enjoy flying. Like the other guys said; Heavy on the controls and you wont get too many greasers but a fun plane to fly. Forget about idle descents... The Westwind doesn't do anything thing great but does everything pretty good!

 

[Capt1124]

Some gouges they may give you, but may help to remember beforehand- keep some positive nose down pressure on the runway. Because the engines are well above the center of gravity, when you lose thrust on the V1 cut it will actually want to pitch up, which of course is the last thing you want. On the V1 cut, use *all* the rudder, because you will need it. I don't know if it was just me, but I remember beng told not to rush the rotation on the V1 cut.

I'm sure it's easier to fly than any other of the airplanes you have listed. Congratulations on the new job and good luck.

 

[FracMonster]

Is Craig Wheel (sp) still teaching there?

 

[NCherches]

... Jew Canoe

 

[Capt1124]

I don't remember Craig Wheel. Dick Washer was still there the last time I was there.

 

[Tristar]

Only have about 100 hours in the Yom Kippur Clipper (and it's been over ten years ago), but for what little they are worth, here are a couple of thoughts:

FSI - Good training, nice sim (at the time anyhow). Good seafood restaurants in the area too! (The important stuff)

I hated the way the aircraft flew - WAY too heavy on the controls for no bigger than it was (in fairness, I was also flying a Sabreliner at the time, probably one of the lightest handling corporate jets). Ponderous would be the term I would use. Now that I've said that, it really wasn't all that bad - but it wasn't a pilot's dream.

Loaded up on a warm day, I recall it being a runway hog. IIRC, six people and bags for a 1700NM (give or take) trip, BFL was close to 8000' at 1000'MSL.

I only flew the II, and I was told by others the main difference between the I and the II was the II had the winglets which added nothing to performance and increased the dutch roll tendencies.

From an owner's perspective it's a great aircraft - good range, a decent sized cabin, good baggage space, and available for a fraction of it's less capable competitors cost.

One other important note - unlike some other lighter corporate aircraft, at a heavy weights the aircraft can out climb it's capabilities. That is - at climb power you can get up high enough that it is only marginally able to stay at at cruise thrust. I learned this the hard way: too heavy and too high, at cruise thrust we slowly decelerated (while not paying enough attention to the aircraft on my part) until we were on the verge of low speed buffet. A descent to lower altitude (while accelerating) solved the problem. Not a big deal in radar contact, but we were over water in Class II airspace - NOT a good situation (file under the heading of God protects children and fools).

Enjoy the airplane, it's a capable aircraft for a bargain price.

 

[100-1/2]

Here is my advice...

Stay away from $600K jets.

100-1/2