Westwind School of Aeronautics ??

[p4lf]

Anyone attended Westwind School of Aeronautics in Arizona, or know anything about the school ??? Interest in going there to finish my ratings, looks like a good school and I am thinking about taking the tour. Any Info would be helpful.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Is this the one at Deer Valley in Phoenix? If so:

In 1997 I got an FAA ATP through them, on the back of my Australian ATPL. I was happy enough with my instructor (the chief pilot) even though, at only 2000hrs or so I had rather more hours than he - and he was one of the more experienced guys.

They had a zero-to-ATP (or 500 hrs or 1000hr or whatever it was) that relied on fresh students constantly coming thorugh the door. Effectively the students payed for their CPL & CFI then accrued hours teaching the next batch on the production line. Many were from overseas trying to take advantage of the somewhat cheaper & faster training available in the USA compared to their home country eg UK, India etc.

From overhearing various instructors chatting, the instructor motivation was more about where their next student was coming from (to keep the all important hours accruing), how long until they'd have to go home & whether or not they were far enough up the queue to get sufficient students/hours first (fair enough, I suppose but it means their focus isn't on what's best for the student), finding ways of extending their visa, trying to find the necessary multi hours needed for an MEI (so they could join the scrum trying to pick off the valuable but rarer multi flights). Whilst most of that is common amongst instructors in a group this was rather dominant. The most telling item stood out because of its lack: None of them seemed interested in discussing student progress, how to overcome a student's difficulty with an area of training, better/more efficient ways of training, finer points of rules & regulations understanding etc etc. These are things that are usually common amongst instructors, especially inexperienced ones. Also the disparagement of the company operation & management was similar in content to the negative things I've said here.

So generally training seemed to be done by new, or limited experience instructors who's goal was maximum flying hours for themselves. The overwhelming impression I got of the place was that it was a sausage factory that bred instructors with limited interest in instructing or doing what's best for students rather than the instructor's log book whilst the organisation was only interested in extracting $$$ from the customers.

Whilst what I've said is pretty harsh, it's not meant to reflect on any particular individual. Most people there were friendly. Just don't expect any leeway about payment. The policy was payment already made sufficient to cover the anticipated flight - or no flight. Never mind that that means you're taking all the risk by trusting them with your money.

In honesty I wouldn't recommend them **IF** they're still like that. Nor any other school that's similar, for that matter. I chose them because

A. they were about the only place in Phoenix who advertised the only US aviation magazine that reaches Australia, and

B. their ad. made a point of noting their expertise with foreign students, and

C. I had limited time available to plan for this because my primary travel purpose was family related in the UK and nothing to do with flying.

Not knowing how the US system works I was something of a neophyte. Knowing what I now know I wouldn't go back to them, and if I could do it again I'd go elsewhere.

I have no reason to doubt that if you choose to train there, you will gain the licences you set out to gain. I just think there are better alternatives.

 

[plunger]

i read on another board that they are potentially having some financial problems and might possibly be going under. of course this may not be true but be vary wary if you hear a school is having financial problems. they won't disclose this to you on the tour. they wait until after they have your money before shutting the doors. just ask anyone who attended ATA in orlando a couple of years back. by the way, i read this over at jetcareers.com

 

[TWheat61]

Hey I went to Westwind in 2002. The training there is pretty good and is very thorough. But the costs there are out of control. Take the price they give you and add like 5-10k. The price they give you is based on the sylabus that is unrealistic. They quote you prices based off of maybe 1.25 hours of flying for a lesson, but in reality it will be 1.75. I know it doesn't sound like much but it adds up. Also, they like to fail people on the stage checks. You then have to retrain and then take the stage check over. Pricey!

The bottom line is, most people have a ton of money in their accounts and they will do whatever it takes to get. I started with my private and went through my commercial single. I finished up my Multi and Flight Instructor Certs. with ATP. I really liked ATP.

Also evaluate how much multi-time your going to get. The minimum the airlines require is 100 multi and the more the better the carrier you can go to. How much additional money will it cost you to get that time? If I were to do all over I would probably go over to ATP.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[146guy]

"Also, they like to fail people on the stage checks."

common bro, we didn't like to fail people!

Westwind overall is a pretty good place to go, but as said before it is pretty expensive. When I was there I felt that the quality of training was among the best compared to other training schools but looking back may have been a bit on the thorough side. I haven't been there for a while now and don't know how things are going. WW was good to me but training back in 99' was much cheaper than now.

 

[TWheat61]

Alright, I will rephrase that. The check airmen may not of liked to of failed people, however whether it be the lack of being prepared or just being real nervous, students failed a lot of stage checks.

Anyway 146 Guy, funny how we were just talking in ORD about working for one of the best regionals. I think the next day, we got the news of UAL. Hopefully I can avoid my second furlough in a year. Peace.

 

[User546]

"Also, they like to fail people on the stage checks."

Pan Am is much the same way. I use to train with a guy that failed a check ride because he couldn't properly identify an arresting cable on a Tucson approach plate. How petty is that? So it cost the guy another two or three flights and then the re-test of the stage check. Not uncommon for someone to fail two or three times per stage check.

I figured up once that to fail a stage check would cost you $1,500 by the time the extra instruction, and extra flights were done. That adds up REAL quick!

So however you want to phrase it, they do fail like to fail you, and it's just another money maker for the school.

 

[146guy]

yeah, no kidding wheat. hopefully things will work out for us!