WESTWIND rating a good choice please ?

[squadronB52]

Hi fellow aviators!

I'm a 2+ year CFI in los angeles, and a co. is looking to hire me, if i buy a westwind rating and come on board. Do you like the airplane? And do you think they're are enough westwinds around for work to be had for awhile, if this particular job doesn't work out, or loses their westwind I (they have 2) ?

Thanks very much in advance !


B52

 

[squadronB52]

westwind a good airplane ?

Hello Folks,

Does anyone know if obtaining a westwind rating wouild be a smart move by a 2 yr cfi, with a fresh ATP ?

A company said they'll hire me if I obtain it.... not sure how long they'll be around for ??

Thanks,

b52

 

[Gulfstream 200]

negative, no, never.

VERY few decent westwind gigs out there.

I would sell you my Westwind rating for $500 if that was possible.

If you are REALLY into buying your own rating buy a Learjet or a Citation rating - still $hit work, but a lot more of it.

Just keep in mind - time (PIC time) in type is the only thing that is worth anything....a fresh rating from FSI with no or minimal time is just not worth much. sorry.

good luck. rethink this, there are better ways!

this company wants you alright.....they want YOU to fill thier insurance company requirements (typed SICs)....

 

[Dangerkitty]

Hello Folks,

Does anyone know if obtaining a westwind rating wouild be a smart move by a 2 yr cfi, with a fresh ATP ?

A company said they'll hire me if I obtain it.... not sure how long they'll be around for ??

Thanks,

b52

And this is posted on the Major Airline board for what reason?

 

[squadronB52]

oops, I'm very sorry. I'll keep this question on the 135 board. Thanks anyway .

 

[350DRIVER]

B52,

Be careful, "she" may be a dangerous "kitty" with a bite - I couldn't resist


The westwind is a popular charter aircraft and will be around for some time, somewhat tricky to land but good range and quick.

"They will hire you IF you obtain it" should be an instant red flag for you to run (not walk) in the opposite direction. If they can afford to own or operate the aircraft then they can afford to train the pilots on it, bottom line. You have worked this hard for what? To shell out more money $$$? I would simply say thanks but no thanks...

3 5 0

 

[Gulfstream 200]

westwind "quick"??

have we flown one?

that things the biggest terd to ever try and crawl down a runway!!!

 

[squadronB52]

thanks 350driver !!

Thank you 350 driver for your very good advice ..... I might reneg on my offer to them.. maybe a rating in a more up-to-date a/c would be better .....

I heard ww's were fast for the buck to (upper levels) ...

paul

 

[350DRIVER]

G-

In comparison to what you are use to, probably not...

The max cruise on the II with ( TFE 731-3's) is right around 455 (tas)
normal cruise is 424
lrc is 400


never said it would set any "records", just said "quick"..

3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

B52,

Do whatever is going to make you happy, just think long and hard about how much money you are going to have to fork over for this rating that you may or may not be able to use again once you move on. It has always been my experience in the 135 and 91 departments that a company that wants to hire someone should (and most do ) pay for the required training.

Look into Avbase at CLE, they will type you right from the start as a first officer at no cost to you. Call and ask to speak to Fred Kirby, very nice guy and they are hiring. A few will post BS about the company but not a bad deal at all, you will also fly a lot.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[squadronB52]

thanks again

350,

Thanks again VERY much. Your advice is well apreciated again. And I will. I am trying to stay in the LA area right now though..... this business of flying isn;t easy ..... I already started some indoc trng with them too .....

b52

 

[Gulfstream 200]

dammm..the 2s I flew never saw those #s...maybe they were just whipped...although a few had the conversion for hotter ITTS..(-10 maybe?)

but sure, its all relative....and I was thinking more in terms of a runway pig and unruly ugly beast that the WW really is!!

but yes, I agree 100% on the comany this guy is looking into...big red flag.

What happens after you pay 20K for a rather usless type and they sell the 2 westwinds 3 months later? - look at the turnover rate of westwinds...they change hands about every 2 years...

then again...some guys are just dead set on giving some creep outfit thier money as they invision its thier only chance.....

its just not so!

personally, I would continue to CFI and job shop until I found a place that thought I was worth training..

just an opinion..

 

[squadronB52]

ok

I'm thinking on restructuring mu ww rating offer to these guys... I've gotten alot of advice that I'm making a big mistake here .....

I do feel more comfortable going to a king air or citation, etc .... but alot of guys want to see experience/ratings/etc, it seems ....

paul

 

[Ty Webb]

westwind "quick"??

have we flown one?

that things the biggest terd to ever try and crawl down a runway!!!

Have "we" flown one? I have, and I don;t think .80 is slow . . . that's the limiting speed on a 2, if I remember correctly. Even the 1, with a VMO of 360 KIAS is not what I would consider a "turd", but, hey, to a big, bad, Gee-whiz Junior driver like yourself, well, I guess everyone needs someone to kick.

The Westwind is a good, honest airplane. The systems are a little weak, but the plane has a great safety record, and you don;t need a rear-view mirror to guard against birdstrikes. I had a lot of fun flying one for four years, and when the time came to move on to the 717 I was well prepared.

I would NOT pay for my own type in that, or any other airplane. Once you do that, they know you'll do anything to keep working, and they will beat you like a rented mule.

Just remember this- there are Flight Departments, and there are Battered Pilot Shelters, and any company that asks you to pay for your own type is definitely in the latter category. You don;t want to work there. That is just the beginning. It will only get worse from there. Run, don;t walk, in the opposite direction.

 

[350DRIVER]

Paul,

I think that would probably be smart....

You have worked too hard to have to spend this money out of your own pocket at this point in the ballgame.

any other questions feel free to ask.

3 5 0

 

[gear_guy]

Just remember that you are setting a standard of how this company will treat you in the future. If they have $$ to buy a Westwind they should pay for the training. If you just have to work for this company, I would consider a 1 year training contract. This basically shifts the risk to their side of the equation. I am not saying it's the best option, but it's better than going into debt (unless you have that kinda cash layin around). Depending on the interest rate, you could end up paying twice as much for that rating, ruining your credit, etc. And for what? Just to get some jet time? The truth is, the company is only saying this because they can. Someone will eventually pay for the rating. Also consider why they are hiring you with no jet time. It probably means that nobody with any experience would go down that road. Think about it, and good luck regardless.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

"The Westwind has a good safety record" --says Ty Webb..

The Westwind has the worst safety record of any corporate aircraft, plain and simple.

do some reasearch on spontaneous combustion and its oxygen system (and IAI's "cure")

but I guess it prepares you well for Airtran...(??)

 

[squadronB52]

You guys are great !

I so much appreciate your time, all of you. I have been given very similiar advice by a friend, that it is not a wise choice ......( this is with spirit aviation, by the way, where I'm offered this full time position, if I buy the ww rating, and will be given a chance at in house, sic trng slot at a lear as well. I have just a few deays to decide on this next ww class, and my head is killing me from this decision.

I've been trying to stay in the LA, area, and I gues that's simply limited my chances of finding anyone that will accept me with out any jet experience (just had 40 hours in a t-37 years ago), or a rating ... keep instructing, hey ??

It's hard.

Thnaks again, very much .... sincerely, paul

 

[English]

Why not go to Eagle, build your experience, then continue to look for a charter or corporate job in LA? At least it would be better than flight instructing, which you seem to be burnt out on.

 

[squadronB52]

thanks

Thats another idea there ! Eagle, locally ? right ?

... thanks .......

paul

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree..even a regional job is better than paying this outfit to fly westwinds.

You only have 1500hrs. this is not the end of the line for you.

 

[English]

Yes, Eagle has an LAX base. I assume you live in the Valley? It would be an easy commute, and you'd only be an indentured servant rather than selling your soul to the devil.

Go apply today and you'd probably have an interview by the end of July. They are hiring at least 76 a month right now for the indefinite future.

 

[psysicx]

Also check out Ameriflight, they are out of Burbank and upgrades to turbine equipment is quick.

 

[squadronB52]

yes, thanks !!! I've thought about them in Burbank .......

by the way, talked to the ops department, and let them know I'm working on the decision for awhile. They're being very nice about it ....

paul

 

[Publishers]

Westwinds

It does not take much to own a Westwind because they were not popular. Certainly not worth getting a rating in. Safety -- how about an MU 2

 

[kilroy]

bang for the buck they are a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good plane. 8 people 2000 miles nonstop try doing that in a 1.5 million bizjet. I,ve flown them all over the world they have never let me down. Safety wise they are decent except for the oxygen valve which is fix via AD. Lastweek a westwind was crashed into hanger in panama killing 6 people onboard and 1 on the ground... But as for paying for your own type unfortunatly is does set the standard for companys these days to once again screw us pilots and take advantage of us because they know some one out there will always pay for there own training