We're no longer "professional" pilots

[bizicmo]

Not to be a spoil sport, but a company could pay a minimum wage to meet the Non-Exempt requirements of the FLSA, and then pay a piece rate (read hrs flown at current rates) and be in compliance.

wouldn't that have to be negotiated on with the union.

 

[pilotyip]

yes

wouldn't that have to be negotiated on with the union.

yes it would of course, but compliance could be meet by the minimum wages if hte union accepted it. Remember there is only so much money for employee compensation.

 

[AirCobra]

Would it benefit helo pilots to create a fraternity or fellowship based on professionalism? If it exist... can it be linked?

I would think so but why aren't helicopter companies part of ALPA? So far ALPA has done little to reach out or to recognize to professional helicopter pilots who are often faced with the same issues as airline pilots. ALPA had a great opportunity during the union drives of PHI, Air Logistics, and the countries largest EMS provider Air Methods a few years back. These pilot groups all wound up unionized through the OPEIU. I don't think ALPA pursued them at all, and if they did it was not widely publicized. The OPEIU recently reached out to ALPA in an effort to use their resources to address safety issues, and to develop strategies to standardize safety equipment and combat fatigue issues, and ALPA has obliged, but it would have been nice to have these guys in the fold, rather than just being a quasi-consulting firm.

Any helicopter pilots will likely tell you they are the red headed step children of aviation. Guys I talked to said they found this attitude no different in the civilian world, as many airlines still treat helicopter flight time as "other flight hours" like glider or balloon, or don't count helicopter time at all even though we are often talking about two pilot, multi-engine turbine powered aircraft, with glass cockpits. Somehow airlines like United seem to find Cessna 150 time more valuable, but still helicopter pilots have found their way into the airline ranks at ASA, Pinnacle, United, American and Air Tran to name a few, so obviously the skills required to operate a helicopter transfer over quite well to airplanes.

So in the other thread you asked about a radical shift. Well this would be one thing. Prejudice against helicopter pilots as some sort of lesser being may have been instrumental in not pursuing three very large pilot groups for ALPA membership. Most helicopter operators operate under Part 135 so they are not operating under some form of alien regulatory system, and flying loads of pax from shore to an oil platform is not that intrinsically different than airline flying. Perhaps we should start recognizing their worth as professional pilots. We might also be able to learn a thing or two. I know for example at PHI FO is paid more than double what a regional FO makes, and PHI has hired people with as little as 500 hours. So how was the OPEIU able to bargain for that kind of pay for new hire FO's with minimal experience? It would be interesting to find out and may have some applications in the airline world.

 

[pilotyip]

Any helicopter pilots will likely tell you they are the red headed step children of aviation. Guys I talked to said they found this attitude no different in the civilian world, as many airlines still treat helicopter flight time as "other flight hours" like glider or balloon, or don't count helicopter time at all even though we are often talking about two pilot, multi-engine turbine powered aircraft, with glass cockpits. Somehow airlines like United seem to find Cessna 150 time more valuable, but still helicopter pilots have found their way into the airline ranks at ASA, Pinnacle, United, American and Air Tran to name a few, so obviously the skills required to operate a helicopter transfer over quite well to airplanes.

Someone has to figure out why uninformed management and union knuckleheads don't view a multi-crew Captain time in an advanced IFR turbine helo like the H-60, H-46, H-53 or H-47 as not real flight time. However, PIC in a VFR only C-150 in the traffic pattern is the breakfast of champions for an airline career by those who set hard fixed wing limits and ignore helo time in total time. Why are most management, unions and insurance company’s sooooo waaaayyyy out of touch with reality? Most likely they have little experience with the helo pilots superior skills and therefore they must be not as good as them. Ops I am sorry I was management bashing again.

 

[bizicmo]

yes it would of course, but compliance could be meet by the minimum wages if hte union accepted it. Remember there is only so much money for employee compensation.

I understand there is only so much money for employee compensation. I would view this as a way to create more efficient schedules and less side BS.

 

[PCL_128]

The argument wouldn't be hard to make. Under labor law, any time during which an hourly employee is required to perform work duties or is required to be present must be paid.

Most judges don't apply the same standards to employees covered under the RLA. When these issues come up, they don't want to touch it, so they just kick it back to arbitration.

 

[Motown]

Most judges don't apply the same standards to employees covered under the RLA. When these issues come up, they don't want to touch it, so they just kick it back to arbitration.

I thought the presumption of this discussion was that IF we fell under the FLSA our duty time would be paid, unlike now.