Weapons

flyu27

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Does anyone carry or have info on carrying weapons on a Part 135 flight as a cockpit crewmember? We have a couple of pilots inquiring about this, and I've been given several different stories by the TSA -- they aren't eligible for the FFDO program because we don't have aircraft over 100,000 or 61 seats. They referred us back to 135.119, which doesn't have a clear interpretation. Any help is appreciated.
 

pilothouston123

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(b) Crewmembers and other persons authorized by the certificate holder to carry arms.

Dear Chief pilot: I request authorization to carry my glock 19 when I go fly.

Dear pilot: Authorization granted!
 

avbug

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The FFDO program is not applicable to charter operations in small airplanes.

You don't need a TSA interpretation of that. You're not eligible. You can get authorization from your company to carry a firearm, if the company will allow it.

However, you are also beholden to all the laws and regulations of every municipality, county, state, and airport thorugh which you pass when you fly, and permission from your Director of Operations won't relieve you from meeting the requirements of those laws and regulations.
 

stupidpilot

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Then leave the weapons on the aircraft.
 

Chairman

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they aren't eligible for the FFDO program because we don't have aircraft over 100,000 or 61 seats.

Weight of the aircarft has nothing to do with the program you need to have reenforced cockpit doors.
 

stupidpilot

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It's clear why you elect to post under the name "stupidpilot."
I love how you are a complete d$ck to everyone you don't agree with. The aircraft is private property. Noone has the authority to enter it without your consent dumba$$
 

Flying Biker

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The biggest concern that I have about carrying is the fact that we fly into Canada and Mexico. If for what ever reason they decide to check you and your aircraft and find it then you can really be in a deep pile of ****. And since we have no idea where we are going from one day to the next, its not like we can have a lock box at the FBO.
 

cap3691

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not a good idea to have a weapons in your aircraft. Just fly and have a good time
 

landlover

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why do you want to carry this gun? for protection? just to take it to the range while on overnights? both? just curious.
 

stupidpilot

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I was thinking the same thing. Your pax are generally pretty well to do. I wouldn't be worried about them trying to take over your aircraft. Unless you're going into Detroit city I don't thing a weapon is necessary. Carrying it internationally is a big no no as well. I would just tell them no.
 

landlover

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I love how you are a complete d$ck to everyone you don't agree with. The aircraft is private property. Noone has the authority to enter it without your consent dumba$$
this is true, but doesn't mean it is legal to have an illegal handgun in the cockpit. what is legal in one state isn't legal in another.
 

Flying Biker

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why do you want to carry this gun? for protection? just to take it to the range while on overnights? both? just curious.
Personally I would not be concerned about the pax. Its more like the locations that we are going to and be staying. Some of the hotels I have been in, even though they are nice, have sometimes been in some pretty horrible locations. The Marriott downtown Orlando is just one that our company tends to put us in that is on the outskirts of the murder capital of Florida (as one local LEO told me).
 

Flying Biker

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this is true, but doesn't mean it is legal to have an illegal handgun in the cockpit. what is legal in one state isn't legal in another.
Unless you are a qualified law enforcement officer, then you can fall back on the Law Enforcement Act of 2004 which allows you to carry anywhere in the US with just a few exceptions.
 

Hamburger

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I love how you are a complete d$ck to everyone you don't agree with. The aircraft is private property. Noone has the authority to enter it without your consent dumba$$
Maybe he was referring to the fact that if you just leave them on the aircraft, it would be pretty pointless to bring them in the first place.
 

stupidpilot

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Maybe he was referring to the fact that if you just leave them on the aircraft, it would be pretty pointless to bring them in the first place.
Then why refer to the FFDO program? That program is desiged for training on the use of weapons on the airplane.

Also leaving them on the airplane provides you with protection from having them confiscated because the airplane is considered private property. Unless you consent to a search then they have to get a court order to look in your plane. Same as your car.
 
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Hamburger

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I made no reference to the FFDO program. It's pretty clear that it doesn't apply to charter.
If you have no intention of using them when you arrive at your destination, why bother?
They may be safe sitting there in the cockpit of an empty plane, but useless. They'd be just as safe at home. Hence, unless you really feel you're going to have a use for them at 35,000ft on a charter, what would be the point of bringing them?

Remember, if you actually think you'll have a need for it at 35,000ft, then you are making an excellent argument for the security screening of your passengers.
 
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Spoolingbyu

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Cpl

Does anyone carry or have info on carrying weapons on a Part 135 flight as a cockpit crewmember? We have a couple of pilots inquiring about this, and I've been given several different stories by the TSA -- they aren't eligible for the FFDO program because we don't have aircraft over 100,000 or 61 seats. They referred us back to 135.119, which doesn't have a clear interpretation. Any help is appreciated.
1st mistake: asking the TSA for any kind of information.

2nd mistake: thinking these pilots are even halfway serious about carrying weapons onboard an aircraft. What were they going to carry? A wheelgun on their hip like the wild wild west? A big knife? Mace or pepper spray? "Yeah, i'm gonna jump out of my King Air with a big baton, taser, and revolver on my hip." It might be legal in some areas but you're asking for a giant smackdown by the first cop that spots you. No, these pilots cannot be serious about carrying weapons.

What they could only seriously inquiring about would be the legal concealed carry of a handgun.

If they were serious they should know that in order to do that you need a concealed pistol license, (CPL) or equivalent issued from your home state, and/or a non-resident permit from another state.

That is the sole, legal, logical remedy in this situation. Carrying mace, batons, knives, pepper spray, tasers, or other weapons aboard the aircraft, concealed or otherwise is not a good idea. The legality of such carry in different municipalities differs so greatly that one would have to resort to leaving it on the airplane.

That means that in plain view of other pax, other people, etc, you have to remove the weapon from your person and secure it on the a/c. When you return to the a/c you have to strap it back on your hip. That is pointless and dangerous. What if you fly multiple legs a day? You might as well leave it at home. The TSA have crippled the FFDO program in this regard. "Playing" with your weapon so much in one day has already created accidents. LEOs handle their sidearm only twice a shift unless they are using it. However with the FFDO that is the best we have at this point.

What you want is the ability to seamlessly carry a pistol concealed about your person, travel to the airport, perform your flight, and then again travel from the airport.

If we had this 121 it would be one hell of a program. But due to the nobel prize winning TSA, we don't.

HOW YOU CAN DO THIS TODAY:

If you have a concealed pistol license, you could do that if you are Part 91. Part 135 you need authorization from the certificate holder.

My advice to correct your mistakes:
1) Get permission for each pilot in writing personally and in the opspecs from your certificate holder.

2) Instruct those pilots to rent a pistol and expend some time at a local gun club putting rounds downrange.

3) Obtain a resident CPL from their home state.

4) Obtain a Texas and/or Florida non-resident permit.

5) Purchase a pistol, good leather, and practice.

6) Carry all the time.

Depending on the situation, you could have about only 11 states that deny your right to carry concealed. In the communist states of NY, NJ, CA, etc, you are simply an unarmed pawn when you travel there. If you happen to live in those hell holes, you are ****ed. But 78% of the time you could carry your pistol everywhere you go and the key thing is:

NO ONE HAS TO KNOW. (except your d.o.)

Remember that like screening, a CPL is only one layer in a scheme of multi-layered defense. Not one single layer should be relied upon.

Educate yourself about concealed carry here:
 

landlover

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Depending on the situation, you could have about only 11 states that deny your right to carry concealed. In the communist states of NY, NJ, CA, etc, you are simply an unarmed pawn when you travel there. If you happen to live in those hell holes, you are ****ed. But 78% of the time you could carry your pistol everywhere you go and the key thing is:
unless you are plaxico burris.
 
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Spoolingbyu

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Plaxico Burris
 
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