Watergate at FLOPS

[FR8DOG777]

I guess our union brothers and sisters at FLOPS must be getting to all the "low lives" that are doing overtime for the company. Mr. T. has been running around the OCC trying to find out how someone has hacked into the CAMP program. This is hilarious. Our VP of flight is so concerned that we may find out who is doing overtime when maybe he should be sitting at the bargaining table and not falling asleep, not doing crossword puzzles, or not taking personal phone calls. People if you are doing overtime there is no need to go running to Bob sniveling and whining to him that you are afraid someone might find out. Someone will always find out if you do overtime. The first place you should look is the person sitting next to you in the plane. Most will rat you out in a second. Second place you should look is in the mirror. the people I know that are doing overtime act like they have something to hide. That is good because deep down you know it is wrong to be doing overtime right now and the guilt is catching up to you. I have yet to meet someone that is proud to be doing overtime. Maybe thats why there isn't a thread on the FLOPS www.IBT1108.org titled "I'm doing OT and proud of it". So guys if you want the respect of your coworkers, and peers please knock it off with the overtime. Friends will outlast any manager at this place. Don't piss off your friends.

 

[GVFlyer]

At one of the major hubs, I was talking to a Flight Options pilot, an older guy, who didn't seem to have any problem telling me he routinely flew over one hundred hours a month.

GV

 

[cjdriver]

That was probably a Hawker dude, and he probably doesn't even work OT.

 

[FR8DOG777]

100 hours

I'm going to have to call bologna on 100 hours a month at FLOPS. I used to do a lot of OT myself back in the day and never was able to get over 70 hours of flight time a month. I believe that is a total exaggeration. I am guessing he may have told you that looking for sympathy. Think about that 100 hours a month would be over 3 hours each and every day of that month of FLIGHT time. Things happen at FLOPS just like other companies. You have broken planes, late pax, and time sitting on standby between legs. For the sake of argument we work 16.6 days a month that would equate out to a little over 6 hours FLOWN each and every day including your two travel days. I am not doubting what you were told by this pilot, but I seriously doubt his information is accurate. Also a 100 hours a month would most likely put him in violation with the FAR's of 800 hours in 2 consecutive calender quarters. Or at least to the maximum the FAR's would allow. The average pilot at FLOPS fly about 600 hours a year working every other week. Using logic again, this pilot would have to fly everyday of the year. Sorry I just don't think that is plausible

 

[NJA bound]

Been at NetJets a year, I don't think I've ever broke 50 hours in one month.

 

[400pilot]

My buddy in the hawker flys an average of 45 hrs each tour. He has done more than 50.

Also a 100 hours a month would most likely put him in violation with the FAR's of 800 hours in 2 consecutive calender quarters. Or at least to the maximum the FAR's would allow.

How do you figure? 100 hrs X 6 months is 600hrs.....not even close to 800.

A quarter is 3 months, not 4 months.

 

[gunfyter]

I have had two 100 hr months at NJA... in 8 yrs

 

[FR8DOG777]

oops

oops you are correct a quarter is 3 months not 4. I miss figured that one but to 100 hour month is not the norm.

 

[b350capt]

know the hawker guys would routinely clock in around 90+ hours, that was two years ago. We'd hit around 50 on average in the 560, but thats why they called it the citation vacation. I saw the writing on the wall and bailed 2 years ago. To the brothers still in the fight, my thoughts are with you guys.

 

[Dep676]

As far as flying 100 hours a month, it could happen but not every month. I am talking about someone flying the Pro-line XP's. The newer ones just go and go. I have talked to a few guys in them and they routinely hit close to 50 hours a week.

Next for the OT, you could fly 10 hours a month and still do OT. The OT has nothing to do with the amount of hours flown. It has to do with the number of days worked in a month.

Now for tracking someone working OT. There is no need to crack into CAMP, you can tell by using your crackberry.

 

[glasspilot]

It's amazing how much overtime can be picked up if everyone else stops picking it up.

I was at an airline that was furloughing and to help with furloughs pilots didn't fly on days off and pick up extra time. I didn't mind the pay cut as it was helping union brothers keep their job. Then one day I ran into a chick who was boasting how fat her checks were. Couldn't believe how easy it was to pick up time. My jaw dropped and I told her why it was so easy. Her quote, "I have to do what I have to do". So now my sacrafice wasn't going to the junior guys looking at furlough, it was going to her and those of her ilk.

grrrrrrr. I'm getting mad now just thinking about it. I gotta go...

 

[jetwash]

I had an FO who had no problem working OT.

I explained to him how he looked very tired to me because of all the OT he was doing and I thought that it would be better if he didn't fly any legs and just sat there and worked the radio all week.

I made sure my only communication with him was company or work related and that was only if I really need to inform him on something.

He got the message very quickly and now knows how I feel.
I think he has come to his sences regarding OT now and will be spending more time at home with his family.

 

[Dep676]

I had an FO who had no problem working OT.

I explained to him how he looked very tired to me because of all the OT he was doing and I thought that it would be better if he didn't fly any legs and just sat there and worked the radio all week.

I made sure my only communication with him was company or work related and that was only if I really need to inform him on something.

He got the message very quickly and now knows how I feel.
I think he has come to his sences regarding OT now and will be spending more time at home with his family.

I am glad you did that to him.

 

[dash_trash]

FO's Perspective

When el Capatain is not participating, I volunteer (no Option) to ride the mike and pull gear for the week!!! They usually come around after a few days of "flying the line" on their own.

 

[futurepizzaguy]

How is accepting overtime or not accepting overtime really affecting the company anyways? Planes are sitting green and uncrewed regardless of OT. If I need (or want) the money and ot is offered...I do it. Until we can get some sort of contract or raise or any other way of compensation....it's pretty ridiculous to ask me to decline this extra money.

Just my too sense.....

 

[gunfyter]

Every day you extend is another month before you get a contract.

 

[TurboHonda]

How is accepting overtime or not accepting overtime really affecting the company anyways? Planes are sitting green and uncrewed regardless of OT. If I need (or want) the money and ot is offered...I do it. Until we can get some sort of contract or raise or any other way of compensation....it's pretty ridiculous to ask me to decline this extra money.

Just my too sense.....

It's also pretty ridiculous for you to think that you will be a respected member of any crew.

What I"m saying is what many pilots are thinking. If your short term gain is worth a long term stigma, then go for it.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Oh Really

How is accepting overtime or not accepting overtime really affecting the company anyways? Planes are sitting green and uncrewed regardless of OT. If I need (or want) the money and ot is offered...I do it. Until we can get some sort of contract or raise or any other way of compensation....it's pretty ridiculous to ask me to decline this extra money.

Just my too sense.....

Well think about this also. If you do overtime right now with green planes sitting all over the country you are helping the company more than yourself. How much are you making in overtime per day? It doesn't really matter because one charter would most likely be 10 times your daily overtime rate. In case you haven't heard I will let you know Mr. Pizzaguy, that we are in contract negotiations. We, as a group, will not achieve the desired results if you continue doing "FAVORS" for FLOPS. We will get a TA on the table as soon as FLOPS realizes that it costs more to fight us than to join us. On that note don't worry about putting FLOPS out of business, because they will do whatever they think it takes to stay in business. Including paying us industry standard wages and benefits, when they find it a financial benefit to them.

 

[Freedom]

And there will be a Stigma:

You may not have been publicly Outed YET, but it is coming.

I personally am aware of the Plans. I suggest you correct your ways while you still have time to do so. You are either with Us (Your Fellow Pilots) or with them (Management).

Good Luck with your life on the road once you and those like you have been publicly outed. Its coming, and you have been warned.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[HSDriver]

How is accepting overtime or not accepting overtime really affecting the company anyways? Planes are sitting green and uncrewed regardless of OT. If I need (or want) the money and ot is offered...I do it. Until we can get some sort of contract or raise or any other way of compensation....it's pretty ridiculous to ask me to decline this extra money.

Just my too sense.....

You're hurting yourself with shortsightedness. If you keep doing overtime they need less pilots. If they need less pilots they will lay off. There is nothing that says they have to do it by seniority. They want to get get rid of highests payed crewmwmbers. That means high on the seniority list and pic's. Even if they go in reverse seniority that means some may get demoted.

At the very least you are prolonging negotiations which is costing you money because of no overtime pay on early shows and long days, and no incentive days when they get you home late on the last day.

HS