Warning to CAL Pilots

[007]

but CAL management has already stated that they aren't interested, the 737-500 fits that niche.

Well, then it must be true.

 

[SSDD]

With all due respect guys, this is all pilot talk. To management, this is business, you can bet that XJT and CAL management are talking about a mutually beneficial solution. If XJT can find use for the ERJ's they will, if not they'll go to Chautauqua, but they're not going to hold on to the airframes just to spite CAL, and they're not going to wait until the last possible moment to create problems for Continental. They are not going to lose money just to make a point!

 

[TNPILOT]

With all due respect guys, this is all pilot talk. To management, this is business, you can bet that XJT and CAL management are talking about a mutually beneficial solution. If XJT can find use for the ERJ's they will, if not they'll go to Chautauqua, but they're not going to hold on to the airframes just to spite CAL, and they're not going to wait until the last possible moment to create problems for Continental. They are not going to lose money just to make a point!

Exactly. Some may want to stick it to CAL but what good does that really serve considering they are still XJT's largest customer? Seems rather childish and I seriuosly doubt "screwing" CAL is high on XJT mgmts list. As for the whole 69 aircraft thing, as many have already stated, I believe that CAL feels they have too many 50 seaters. It's a win win situation for them. XJT keeps the airplanes they get increased lease rates and get rid of some 50 seaters. If XJT does not keep them, CHQ flies them for less. Personally I look for XJT to do something that many here have not even considered yet. It's actually a really good opportunity for XJT to take a bit of a risk with the 69 aircraft because they will not have all their eggs in one basket. They can hedge their risk through profits made by the other 205 airframes flying for CAL. Just my .02.

 

[Plug]

Well, then it must be true.

Not saying it's gospel, but why contract out to Chewbacca to fly an airplane that is comparable in size to aircraft that are already in the fleet. This is how CAL has been successful compared to the other majors.

Now, go rap your head in tin foil and be very concerned about those black helicopters flying over your head! TIC!

 

[whymeworry?]

Correction: Chataqua has been awarded the actual 69 aircraft - 50 seaters - in 2007, that are going to be withheld from XJet service if XJet doesn't "race for the bottom" like the rest of us.

I think XJet will cave - they're not going to find a better deal than they have with Continental.

XJT won't cave. And I applaud their management team and CEO for doing so. Whilst every other regional airline is willing to whore out it's employees by striving to be the lowest bidder, XJT mgmt has drawn it's line in the sand and stood up to a major. That takes balls. They could've just as easily agreed to fly at a loss and told the employees and shareholders to deal with it. Instead, they offered to cut their margins to 2% and CAL still said "not good enough".

Consider this, XJT made something like $109 million last year. CAL mgmt wanted XJT to cut that profit to something like $9 million to save CAL $100 mil a year. XJT has other businesses that make up part of that $109 million profit. So in essense, CAL wanted XJT to operate their airline at a loss so CAL could benefit. in effect, they would have been forced to use their other businesses to finance their continued forray into airline feed. That would be financial suicide and wouldn't make shareholders too happy.

XJT has some of the lowest costs in the regional business so they are a fierce competitor... but they won't enter into an agreement that is dure to be a financial loss. Can anyone blame them for that?

I don't have a dog in this fight and could care less how it turns out but the fact is CAL pilots in general won't know what's going on until it actually happens. Just as they ignored the onslaught of the RJs (they were warned in the late 90s and simply burried their heads in the proverbial sand), so too will they ignore the negative implications this transfer in feed MAY have on their flying (read: further threat of 70 seat "E" jets encroaching on CAL mainline flying). Some will educate themselves about this topic, most will not.

 

[007]

Now, go rap your head in tin foil and be very concerned about those black helicopters flying over your head! TIC!

And I thought those were flies I was swatting.

I love Houston

 

[Popeye0537]

Had a CAL guy in the jumpseat who was oblivious about what's happening over at XJT and so I thought I needed to share. Chautauqua Airlines has been awarded 69 aircraft worth of flying starting in 2007. Chautauqua Airlines has Embrear 170s and they're not afraid to use them. Don't weaken your scope clauses because Larry tells you he needs you to. Is the picture being painted clearly?

Captain Morgan

Just wondering Cappy, but everyone except Jetlink flys 70 seaters...So no matter who won the bid, there was a possibility. (ASA/SKYWEST/MESA) Look at the Total # of 70's seaters we have compared to our competition. We're way out numbered, but you tend to think we're gonna fly 70's for CAL....no chance. "Were not afraid to use them"....do you realize that our 170's, and only OUR 170's crew furloughed mainline? How about you over there at XJT?

We lost a lot of DAL flying to Freedom, but you don't see any of us on here bitching about how we as a company lost flying. Mabey I should start a thread to Delta mainline pilots to warn them of the 90 seaters Mesa has, and for them to take notice......Keep your ranting to the regional section.

 

[007]

Keep your ranting to the regional section.

uuuummmm....you don't

question about your profile???????overpaid huh??????

 

[Captain Morgan]

Popeye0537: Yeah I figured that alot of other people do have the 70 and 90 seat CRJ. The E-Jet is Embrear however. I could see after leasing and re-leasing 274 ERJs over the years, maybe some better deal could be had with Embraer. Also, the cost factor comes in. Chautauqua was able to underbid most airlines. Mesa wasn't even allowed to bid from what I understand. Have a good one all!

 

[Plug]

And I thought those were flies I was swatting.

I love Houston

Just went to Sam's and bought the industrial size bug spray, thanks for the heads up! ;-)

Cheers

 

[Popeye0537]

Mesa and Express underbid our offer, but it was rejected by CAL because they want more control with the 50 seat market. We were able to offer a reliable product along with maintenance bases in place. We are an all E jet company as you call it, so our costs are lower. Sorry, but thats just economics.

Whats the difference between a 70 seat CRJ and a 70 seat ERJ? They both have 70 seats don't they? Embraer has so much business right now they don't need to sell these jets at a discount. Mainline, AirCanada,Jet blue, are all lined up to get them.

 

[Popeye0537]

uuuummmm....you don't

question about your profile???????overpaid huh??????

Not ranting, just informing the ill informed


"Overpaid" it was put on as a joke

 

[Palomino]

Mesa and Express underbid our offer, but it was rejected by CAL because they want more control with the 50 seat market. We were able to offer a reliable product along with maintenance bases in place. We are an all E jet company as you call it, so our costs are lower. Sorry, but thats just economics.

Economics? you're trying to say that CHQ costs more so CAL chose them? that's the whole point of this exercise...to reduce costs.

i do agree that CAL wants to diversify to avoid labor hiccups and such down the road.

 

[Mr Hat]

I think XJet will cave - they're not going to find a better deal than they have with Continental.

Whymeworry has it 100% right. Management didn't even approach the pilots for concessions. I must say that I was expecting it when they announced the 69 airplane loss in the first place....however, I have a totally new found respect for Expressjet management for not taking the easy way out. Airline management 101 says, when in doubt, go to the pilots for extra cash. Expressjet didn't sell us out, they stood with us. I suppose they could still come to us for concessions but that was not the first thing that they did, like at other airlines. AND with our pilots being the highest paid on the E145, We have a big bullseye on our heads. I have always loved my airline, but the way my management team handled this really blew me away and I am behind them 100%. Most at Expressjet seem to feel the same way.

As for CHQ, I will not blame them or their pilots for doing what Expressjet would have done. A bid was open, they bid on it and won it. Thats it. Expressjet would do the same at Delta or whatever.

 

[coolyokeluke]

I don't have a dog in this fight and could care less how it turns out but the fact is CAL pilots in general won't know what's going on until it actually happens. Just as they ignored the onslaught of the RJs (they were warned in the late 90s and simply burried their heads in the proverbial sand), so too will they ignore the negative implications this transfer in feed MAY have on their flying (read: further threat of 70 seat "E" jets encroaching on CAL mainline flying). Some will educate themselves about this topic, most will not.[/quote]

I agree. Look at the profiles of the majority of folks responding to this thread, it's mostly feeder guys. Yet another demonstration of (most of) CAL pilot's apathy towards Express.

 

[jbDC9]

Look at the profiles of the majority of folks responding to this thread, it's mostly feeder guys. Yet another demonstration of (most of) CAL pilot's apathy towards Express.

Nahh, I don't think that's it at all... mainline guys don't need a warning, we know whats happening and responding to this thread is just beating a dead horse; what's the point? No one knows what's really happening yet. We still have the scope clause at 50 seats, and so far there have been no moves to change that. If there are attempts to change it, hopefully it'll get voted down.

Apathy towards Express? Meaning what? Are we supposed to be sitting here, watching and waiting for news about Express Jet, or maybe hanging out in your crew rooms? I go to work, fly my trips, come home. When a union vote comes up, I vote. I'm not quite sure what else I "should" be doing when it comes to Express...

 

[badog]

It's all speculation

Doesn't CAL still own a controlling interest in XJT? Doesn't CAL just use XJT to hide $$$, ie (profitability). please explain...

 

[TNPILOT]

Doesn't CAL still own a controlling interest in XJT? Doesn't CAL just use XJT to hide $$$, ie (profitability). please explain...

CAL currently owns something in the neighborhood of 8% of XJT stock which is down significantly from their position as little as 18 months ago. It is my understanding that the ownership is in the name of CAL's pension obligation and they sell the stock to make payments toward that obligation. I'm sure I got some of the details mixed but that's the basic idea.

 

[badog]

Howya Dooin'

So is 8% a controlling interest? If so doesn't that mean CAL still, technically owns us? So why try to devalue the stock unless a buy back is in the works. You don't kill the goose etc...unless?!!??!

 

[calfo]

XJT mgmt has drawn it's line in the sand and stood up to a major. That takes balls.

Yeah... let's see... Atlantic Coast did the same thing...

Consider this, XJT made something like $109 million last year.

Remember this - XJet operates under a capacity agreement with Continental - all of XJet's capacity is bought by Continental - up front - for a fee-per-departure basis. The fee is agreed upon + 10%. XJet is guaranteed at least a 10% profit under the agreement. And they use Continental's marketing and administrative staff to boot. Going it alone will incur a large increase in overhead - they'll be looking at the same thing ACA did.

 

[ATRedneck]

Yeah... let's see... Atlantic Coast did the same thing...

...XJet is guaranteed at least a 10% profit under the agreement.

... Going it alone will incur a large increase in overhead - they'll be looking at the same thing ACA did.

Everybody talks about the 69 airplanes. But what about the 200+ airplanes that XJT will continue to fly for CAL?

XJT has the luxury of knowing exactly what their profit will be (+/-) with the airplanes flown for CAL, which gives them the latitude to be a little more aggresive and risky in their search for what to do with the 69. I'd wager that the management at XJT would rather operate the 69 at a loss than to turn the keys over to somebody else, especially when they can offset that loss with the other 200+ airplanes.

The big difference between ACA and XJT is that ACA was on the trapeeze without a net, over a big tank of alligators.

 

[Superpilot92]

Everybody talks about the 69 airplanes. But what about the 200+ airplanes that XJT will continue to fly for CAL?

XJT has the luxury of knowing exactly what their profit will be (+/-) with the airplanes flown for CAL, which gives them the latitude to be a little more aggresive and risky in their search for what to do with the 69. I'd wager that the management at XJT would rather operate the 69 at a loss than to turn the keys over to somebody else, especially when they can offset that loss with the other 200+ airplanes.

The big difference between ACA and XJT is that ACA was on the trapeeze without a net, over a big tank of alligators.

AGREED!!

 

[Ben Franklin]

Where is the "SKYTEAM" logo painted on RJET aircraft?

Sincerely,

B. Franklin