Going into a notoriously dangerous mountain airport, the captain I was flying with decided that he would land straight in(even though the descent rate required to do so would be well above the rate allowed by a stabilized approach) instead of circling in the valley as is customary when doing the approach. We went full dirty and when he realized that even full flaps and gear weren't enough, he popped the spoilers as well. Doing so is prohibited in the Lear. At that point I was just along for the ride. Attempting to take the controls would most likely have guaranteed disaster, so I just prayed and Thank the Lord, we got lucky. The engines spooled up at about 100 ft and he greased it on. Most people considered my position with that operator as a pretty good job. I'm just glad that I managed to leave alive.
regards,
enigma
Last week, a guy took off VFR in a single engine prop out of the Milton-T airport and asked PNS approach for flight following. The controller wanted to know where he was - the pilot said he was at 1000 ft but wasn't sure of location, however there are 2 airfields directly below me. The controller had a few choice words starting with, "Turn Now!" This Supergenius had flown directly into NAS Whiting Field's airspace (the busiest naval airfield in the world) - the idiocy compounded by the fact that Milton is only 5 miles south of Whiting.....
And to WrightAvia,
Great movie, although I preferred the quote in the Austrian accent: "If it bleeds, I can kill it!"
..he tried to show me how you could do a DME arc by just getting to the DME distance and turning 90 degrees and keeping the RMI needles on the wing of the miniature airplane. None of that 10 or 20 degree cuts on the heading for this guy. According to GLIEM you fly it with the pointers of the needles on the wing. Ha. It was miller time after being trapped with that dong for three days.
I may not understand your post.. so excuse me if I don't.. BUT..
if you intercept the DME arc (granted, you have to turn early, not *on* the DME), and then keep the RMI needle on the 90 degree wing (which one depends on which direction you fly the arc).. the you will slowly be changing your heading along the arc. Keeping that RMI needle at 90 will require a "continuous" turn.. very slight.. so you can chop it up into 5 or 10 degree segments.. but what he said should work. This is assuming no wind, of course.http://forums.flightinfo.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=179492#
I was at an airshow at a small airport in Connecticut many years ago. Among other things, they were going to demonstrate how to pick up a banner. The tow pilot made a low approach, probably to ensure that he wouldn't miss the banner in front of a captive audiance. Since he came in low, instead of catching the banner he caught the 500 foot barrier rope at the arrival end of the runway. The rope was dragged across many airplanes, damaging some of them and it sent stakes flying everywhere. He just released the rope and did a straight out departure - never to be seen again the rest of the day.
My friend in the 414 was using RMI pointers as the primary source of heading information by keeping the arrow heads off the appropriate wing. As far as I can tell, referencing the RMI pointers for situational awareness is o.k. but not a primary source of heading guidance. Using the RMI to know when you are going to get to the lead radial is great also.
But I know of no where in IFR training where you would stare at the RMI and keep the needles off the the appropriate wing and hope to stay the exact DME required to be on the published portion of the approach as a primary source of navigation.
As far as turning early and how far off of the DME arc you can get and still be on the approach and lead radials and the basic DME arc stuff...I left that out, assuming that most that read the post already know the basics about DME arcs.
If I am riding with someone that makes the 90 degree turn and just uses the actual DME to make left and right corrections and keeps on the arc...I don't care if they sit there and actually do 10 or 20 degree cuts on heading to stay on the arc...as like you said, with wind, it is not going to be the same exact amount of correction to keep you on anyway. The main thing being that you stay on the published portion of the approach by being at your DME distance +/- and to not pass by your lead radial for the final approach course.
Flying to the ARC and then turning on to it and then staring at your RMI and using that as left and right guidence as a primary way to stay on the arc is not the way to it.
WrightAvia
Yes, I agree, your primary source of heading should be your DG.. I have been spoiled and flown with RMI's that are slaved to the DG, so that isn't a problem.. Guess we just crossed ideas there!
Either way, sounds like that guy's flight skills were Tango Uniform
My first ever flight in a Metro III after an SIC checkride found me in the right seat with one of the company higher ups. As we taxied to the active, which was covered in ice, he kept adding and reducing power and messing with the nose wheel steering and rudder trim. I should have known what was coming, but being a little green I thought maybe something weird was going on with the aircraft. We get onto the runway, both throttles go up and pretty soon we are about 80 knots sideways - he had failed to get #2 off the stop lock so it was flat pitch. In retrospect I think it was a good thing the runway was icy, we slid sideways to a stop, taxied back, and made a normal takeoff. I'm just glad there weren't any dry spots on the runway past where we went sideways, that could have gotten very interesting.
Another Metro flight I heard about second hand involved a guy who loaded two rather large and heavy palettes (spelling?) that were sitting on rollers and did not get tied down or secured with nets. On rotation I guess things got interesting. He made it back safely.
Watching a Lear 55 try to taxi off the ramp with a GPU still attached to the plane. There must have been about 15 pilots and line guys running down the ramp yelling an waving at them. They finally stopped, realized what was happening. Door opens, FO jumps out, disconnects the GPU, hops back in and away they go.
A ways back when I was at school an insturctor I knew pretty well had a new private student that was also new to the country. This girl of asian descent was on her second or third flight and just learning all the inns and outs of the preflight. The this morning she was going around the C-152 like normal and got to the stall horn in which her instructor told to suck on in order to test the horn, usually with a rag over it. Well, she mixed something up and was caught deep throating the pitot tube. Before the whole thing was over the entire school was on the ground in tears. By far the strangest thing I have seen
My younger brother took a guy to a non-tower field in a 172 to do the guy's first solo. The pulled off on the parallel taxiway, little-bro got out, gave the guy his last minute "you'll-do-fine" briefing, then slammed the door.
The instant the door closed, our excited, nervous solo student firewalled the throttle and blasted off right there on the taxiway...nearly took little-bro's head off with the stabilizer.
He managed to do the rest of the day's flying on the runway, but man!
One of my friend's students was on his solo cross country and somehow hit the prop on the runway during landing somehow. Anyways, he pulls onto the ramp, sets the parking brake and gets out and stands in front of the prop (still running) to see if he can see any damage. He doesn't see any so he flies the plane back.
Funny coincidence...I worked in diving and salvage in the navy. Our unit was Harbor Clearance Unit Two (which later on became Mobile Diving and Salvage Two) and our unofficial motto was "there are more navy divers looking for pilots, than pilots looking for divers".
Quote one paragraph from the IFH or Kirschner where the RMI is "primary" for flying an arc. The RMI is secondary and is only good for flying a radial and knowing what radial you are on, it does not tell you DME distance from the station. All you need to fly an ARC is a VOR and DME, anything else is red wheels.
I spent significant time in teaching instrument training in an accelerated environment and never did the lack of RMI needle usage ever come up in conversation with an examiner in regards to an instrument pilot applicant I recomended.
I think you guys are missreading the post and transposing something into it that isn't there. You cannot tell me that you just flew up a radial, made a 90 degree turn on the arc and then stayed established on the arc by staring at RMI needles. Even a child could see that is wrong.
And there you have the key problem. Someone needs to send him to FSI to be shown why his attitude will kill himself. Let him crash the sim a few times.
He was a real ass from begining to end. Couldn't tell him a thing
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