Want to be an airline pilot, read this!!

[JAFI]

A while back I was at an FBO on a weekend flying with some friends when a young man approached us and asked if any one of us was a CFI. Being the only one who was I said I was a CFI but not for the FBO, but I would answer any question that I could. The young man (around 16) with parents in tow told me he "wanted to be an airline pilot" then asked me, with puffed out chest, "what is the most important license I should get"? I thought about the question for a second, remembered my friends in the industry and the trials of employment in aviation today, then said "In today’s industry you will be laid off or go bankrupt more than once in your career, the most important license you can get is Real Estate, Plummer, Electrician, or any trade because you will most likely need it more than once." The young man looked at me like I was insane, turned and walked away.

When I tell this story to young pilots I am told how cruel I was. When I tell the story to my pilot friends on the street or those who left aviation, they all shake their heads and agree that what I told the kid was sad, but true.

It is some what a matter of perspective, luck, and timeing. If you are senior, hired at some magical point that now is above the lay off point, or if your company is still going strong, then life is good and my comment is cruel. If you are not at a good place, I am correct.

Like any flight, always have a back up plan, or better yet - PLANS...........


JAFI

One bad plan I have heard over and over again is "Well I can always get a job with the FAA". Currently there are over 5000 pilots/mechanics/dispatchers laid off (ball park figure I heard somewhere) for 86 FAA Inspector positions open this year (a figure released by an Inspector General Audit last week).

 

[FN FAL]

FFL - Free Fire License - - means he can shoot anywhere he darn well pleases

SOT - - Shoot Other Things - - means not restricted to paper targets. He can shoot at animals and people when the situations present themselves

Class II SOT - - better than a Class I (restricted to animals less than 18" tall, children under 36" tall, and bad guys that are running towards the shooter) but not quite as good as the Class III (unlimited - animals of any size, good guys or bad guys anywhere if it's necessary) Class II restricts the carrier to any adults, any animals, and only children that present an immediate danger to the shooter

NFA - - Not Forced Around - - people in this community rarely, if ever, are forced to do things they don't want to do. Once they show the FFL and Class II SOT, most guys run away.

Heh heh heh... You forgot the the LEO's v. Libras!

 

[flyboyzz1]

1. You don't want to hear about it because you're currently working the WORST job in the aviation industry, CFI'ing. I feel your pain- I instructed through college and can't even imagine how much fun I missed because I was stuck CFIing every day of the week on top of my classes. When you hear someone that has your 'dream job' expressing dissatisfaction with this industry's QOL, you get thinking that maybe he's right and it's not going to be all sunshine and b.lowjobs...but you haven't got 'there' yet. I bet you're one of those guys that thinks once you get a regional and 'get' to wear that stoopid uniform that now you're 'living the dream'. But guess what, after that first paycheck comes in and you're making 19.02 an hour the stress of realizing what you can;t do while living off less than poverty wages, the buzz of 'being able' to tell people you're an 'airline pilot' is gonna wear off really quick. (I tell people I meet I'm a garbageman.) The point of this thread is- if you want to have a stable family and get happiness from the things that really matter in life, stay away from being an airline pilot.

(2) whaaaaat?

(3) We can't stand people that walk around with the perma-grin pretending everything is rosy every friggin day. You're probly the same type that would vote for a paycut in exchange for 'growth', bend over to take any reaming mgmt will give you, cross a picket line, etc. I bet you also think that doing an ILS to mins while in moderate or greater is 'fun'...done that yet?

(4) Come back and let's talk in a couple years.

-Barn

Nope I think you got it all wrong. Im 20 years old... what other job would be better. I get paid twice the wages my friends get.. work at a nice University that cares for those that work there... work part time... and have fun. So although some CFIs complain about what they got not me. I have no problem that some people dont like their current jobs flying all Im sayin is keep it in your own head or call your momma I bet she wouldnt mind hearing you complain and bitch. As for my job im not looking to get rich and I know the pay sucks balls at first so bring on those checks baby... Go ahead and quit just makes me one spot closer!

 

[flyboyzz1]

And another thing this was this jokers first post. Way to start out positive bro!

 

[pilotyip]

JAFI, that is some great advice. A skilled trade is something you can fall back on, it is much more valuable than a college degree. The value of an unused college degree is greatly overrated. There is no such thing as a permanet job in flying. I know someone is going to come up and say, "I have never been laid off", but for everyone of those there are probably 3-4 who have spent time between jobs. So if someone comes up and says "I was never laid off", just add the word yet.

 

[Goose Egg]

Again, from the CFIs

When I tell this story to young pilots I am told how cruel I was. When I tell the story to my pilot friends on the street or those who left aviation, they all shake their heads and agree that what I told the kid was sad, but true.

I don't think it's cruel. I think perhaps the most humane thing you could do is aquaint people with the truth.

So, we should expect to have career setbacks. Got it. Happened already. I'm a 28 year old CFI who spent a year and half after I got my rating developing photos in drug store and struggling through the CFII because of I hadn't flown for 8 months prior. Might not seem like much to you guys, but it was a fairly significant experience for me. Anyone know how hard it was to find a CFI job post 9/11? I do. But I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that my albiet short career hasn't been all sunshine and giggles. Would I prefer to do something else? I think you guys all know the answer to that.

In today’s industry you will be laid off or go bankrupt more than once in your career...

Getting layed off is one thing, but going bankrupt... I think that with some relatively conservative financial planning (read live well within your means), it need not be an issue.

-Goose

 

[av8er2]

This guy is going to be a professional.

What the hell did you think it would be Jacka$$. Boo Hoo, my dream came true and it sucks. Shove it.

Way to be a professional. You'll be just like some of the spoiled Jacka$$ Fo's I fly with. And by the way, they complain all the time too.

 

[NEDude]

Hate to break it to a lot of you guys, but what we deal with in the airline world is not so different than what everyone else deals with. I am a career changer (thankfully only in my late 20s when I did) and worked some other professional jobs before this.

Pay, benefits, long hours away from home, advancement, management, and job security are worries common to many careers.

In one job I had I was out of town 2 weeks out of every month traveling to different offices of my company to conduct training. I racked up a ton of Delta frequent flier miles very quickly. When I was not on the road I was in the office 10 hours per day and would have to bring projects home to work on at night and on weekends. I made good money but was stressed out by all of the above items. And I hated what I did for a living.

Stressing about the side crap is going to happen no matter what job you do, and no matter what industry you work in. Don't fool yourself into thinking that If you get a "real" job all that stuff will go away.

 

[funky]

well said.

Stressing about the side crap is going to happen no matter what job you do, and no matter what industry you work in. Don't fool yourself into thinking that If you get a "real" job all that stuff will go away.

 

[RichardRambone]

Well I always am freaked out about the future of this industry and have considered other careers already and I just started. Im just trying to get 135 mins so I can move on. Like has been previously said Im going to ride it out until I cant stand it no more. Crazy how us guys are willing to take those words, "I can't believe Im getting paid to do this" and make them a career. I plan on hopefully getting my masters in management or something similiar and plan on a career outside aviation if and when (when) it happens. I plan on the same 22K/year for the next few years.

 

[FN FAL]

Way to be a professional. You'll be just like some of the spoiled Jacka$$ Fo's I fly with. And by the way, they complain all the time too.

Hahaha. Yesterday, I was skirting a line of t-storms to get around the backside and had to go 100 miles out of my way along the Lake Kitchigami shoreline at 4,000 feet. Lightning and dark grey walls to my left and a cornucopia of water and Canada to my right. It was beautifull and for the most part, the ride was smooth. During the middle of this, I thought I'd hang a louie and break through, but a flash of lightning and a burst of static on the ADF warned me to keep plugging on my course west.

To add to the rush, center couldn't talk to me down there and had relay clearances through other aircraft in the area. In addition, try adjusting the tilt on your radar over a body of water with islands scatered all over the place...the second guessing yourself thing will drive you nuts.

Oh...that's right, we're supposed to be complaining...dooohhhh!

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:

"And about fewer pilots being available in years to come ... no way! There will always be some azzwhole who'd pimp his sister to score a few hours in the right seat of a King Air or Citation, or break out daddy's checkbook for a B1900 or CRJ."



And after reading their posts, I would bet MTpilot and flyboyzz1 are two of those people......

 

[av8er2]

Lots of good info. Thanks

Looks like I got a lot of you to think and comment. Thanks for all the posts. Yes I have to decide what is right for my family. I am just not going to sit back and take it up the you know what for the next 25 years. Yes there will be good times and bad times. But I am a highly trained professional and I expect to be treated like one. Too many pilots don't think like that so they settle for less.

I wanted to let a lot of the young pilots read these kind of opinions about aviation. If I would of read stuff like this I might of built an even better back up plan. Going to a aviation school for the cost of $100,000 and coming out with all your ratings and a degree in avaition management is not too smart today.

Now maybe new pilots may only invest $25,000 in ratings and get a worth while degree in something else. Or start their own business before they get to deep into flying.

Flying is fun but the airlines are the most negative environment and the biggest unhappy, complaining group of people I have ever been around. I am not going to be like one of those completely negative senior 20 year captains at my airline.

I am working on backup ideas so I can turn this job into a hobby if I stay in. The most happy pilots I have met make all their money at another business and it does not matter if they can't fly for a pay check.

Just because some of you are willing to take the roller coaster ride and take it up the you know what by the airlines, does not mean you should think that everyone else should do the same. There needs to be a balance, and that is what I am looking for.

Money does not make you happy, but when you don't have enough, flying an airplane doesn't mean anything.

 

[flyboyzz1]

quote:

"And about fewer pilots being available in years to come ... no way! There will always be some azzwhole who'd pimp his sister to score a few hours in the right seat of a King Air or Citation, or break out daddy's checkbook for a B1900 or CRJ."



And after reading their posts, I would bet MTpilot and flyboyzz1 are two of those people......

Wish I had a sister!

 

[Flyboyz]

Hate to break it to a lot of you guys, but what we deal with in the airline world is not so different than what everyone else deals with. I am a career changer (thankfully only in my late 20s when I did) and worked some other professional jobs before this.

Pay, benefits, long hours away from home, advancement, management, and job security are worries common to many careers.

In one job I had I was out of town 2 weeks out of every month traveling to different offices of my company to conduct training. I racked up a ton of Delta frequent flier miles very quickly. When I was not on the road I was in the office 10 hours per day and would have to bring projects home to work on at night and on weekends. I made good money but was stressed out by all of the above items. And I hated what I did for a living.

Stressing about the side crap is going to happen no matter what job you do, and no matter what industry you work in. Don't fool yourself into thinking that If you get a "real" job all that stuff will go away.

Right on man, Right on! Could not have said it better myself. I was a pilot long ago got furloughed and started a business that has been around for 15 years. I get so tired of hearing people think that the grass is always greener. Love what you do and if you do not like it then do not bitch to others and kill their dreams. Just because it sucks for you do not make it suck to everyone around you.

For 15 years many of my clients have been airline pilots. I will tell you that I could probably count on one hand those that hated it and left the business. The main reason was unrealistic expectations. Even after Delta cutting wages, United changing their pension, my clients still love what they do. However, they know it can come to an end and they prepare.

Every single occupation has its volatility. If we have another 9/11, no matter how it happens, believe me no matter what you do you will be affected. The good thing about it that for the most part crap is temporary and life goes on and you move on.

We appreciate your venting but do what you need to do and move one. Do not bring down everyone around everyone one you while you are doing it.

 

[Goose Egg]

I will tell you that I could probably count on one hand those that hated it and left the business. The main reason was unrealistic expectations (emphasis added).

So it's not just me...

-Goose

 

[JAFI]

[/color]

Getting layed off is one thing, but going bankrupt... I think that with some relatively conservative financial planning (read live well within your means), it need not be an issue.

-Goose

Not personal bankrupt but the COMPANY going bankrupt. It is a real experience when you show up for work and there is a "Closed" sign on the door (and they have not paid you for a while). Or my personal favorate is showing up for work and the boss says "We sold the airplane last night, go clean out your stuff and go home." And you say "when did you decide to sell the airplane, and why did you not tell me?" So the boss says "well it has been for sale for a while and if we told you we knew you would go out to look for work and leave us..." (So instead of sticking us, We stuck you...) - you can pick out the best words to replace "stuck".

JAFI

 

[11thHour]

Hate to break it to a lot of you guys, but what we deal with in the airline world is not so different than what everyone else deals with. I am a career changer (thankfully only in my late 20s when I did) and worked some other professional jobs before this.

Pay, benefits, long hours away from home, advancement, management, and job security are worries common to many careers.

In one job I had I was out of town 2 weeks out of every month traveling to different offices of my company to conduct training. I racked up a ton of Delta frequent flier miles very quickly. When I was not on the road I was in the office 10 hours per day and would have to bring projects home to work on at night and on weekends. I made good money but was stressed out by all of the above items. And I hated what I did for a living.

Stressing about the side crap is going to happen no matter what job you do, and no matter what industry you work in. Don't fool yourself into thinking that If you get a "real" job all that stuff will go away.

So very true. I was one of the "unrealistic expectation" victims myself. After a few years working for a regional, most of that sitting reserve, I walked away to put my management degree to use. I'm making more money, sure, but you know what? I see my wife less than I did as a pilot, the stress is immensly higher, the work is mind numbingly boring and has no reward or satisfaction at all, and on top of that we just got news of indefinite pay freezes. And here's the thing, my uncle is a doctor for crying out loud, and he even despises his job. The insurance is draining him in a hurry, he's overworked, overstressed, guess what, just like the rest of us. So for all who think the grass may be greener, for a very, very, select few it may turn out that way, but the reality of the working world is that as long as you depend on a paycheck and aren't financially independent, you'll be taking it up the a$$ in one form or another. Now I'm trying to get back into the industry becuase I quickly realized it wasn't as bad as I made it out to be. Sure, it was **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hard, but so is anything else I'd be doing.

 

[Goose Egg]

Not personal bankrupt but the COMPANY going bankrupt.

Gotcha...

(So instead of sticking us, We stuck you...) - you can pick out the best words to replace "stuck".

Absolutely crappy and despicable, but not unrecoverable. And actually something like that happened to me a couple times already, but niether of them were flying jobs. I guess stuff like that happens in occupations other than flying.

-Goose

 

[TurboS7]

When I was 18 I told myself that I would never work for a commuter or as we now call them regional airline. The pay just not justify all the time and hard work. If you are getting burned out blow the commuter job and get at job flying corporate. Even if you are flying just a Navajo the schedule and benifits will put to shame anything that you are doing right now. Most companies are family oriented and if you are away from home they will usually let your wife come along or give you an airline ticket home so you can be with the family. With your time you should be able to land a good corporate job in the right seat of a nice jet and enjoy life.