Want to be an airline pilot, read this!!

[FN FAL]

I'll be freeing up a slot here pretty soon, 15 years in, over 8000 hours 2 type ratings, 4-year, you name it, I got it, think someone wants it? Heck no and probably won't for another 5 years, so cheerio, it's been fun.

I'm thinking the above won't get me a reasonable wage and/or a reasonable retirement by the time I see the " big " iron, or is that " shrinking iron ".

So I'm forging ahead with my own business and freeing my slot for someone else, wish me the best and I'll wish you guys the best with al lthat flying 'n stuff.

I've been toying with the idea of getting my FFL and Class II SOT, so that I may better serve the law enforcement and NFA community by taking in their unwanted cash.

The wife wants a house and I want a workshop with a lathe and a drill press in it...so I think it's up to me to give her what she wants.

So I may just keep my draggin ass caravan job and work out the details on the side business on the sly. Who knows?

I like looking at the bigger planes and wondering, but somehow I get the feeling that 15 years isn't going to be enough time to recoup the effort.

I know a guy that does 30K a year in NFA transfers with his Class III sales and I'd like to dip in and do the repairs and mods on all those transfers...in my spare time. Plus, I could probably call in some LEO markers to get the ball rolling.

Lots of pilots that I know are always turning gears on what to do for a side business...one guy I know got into running a bunch of bee hives on his property.

 

[cargoflyr69]

I've been toying with the idea of getting my FFL and Class II SOT, so that I may better serve the law enforcement and NFA community by taking in their unwanted cash.

could someone please put this into english for me?

 

[Metro752]

He's gunna get gun licenses n certificates n such so he can make fat cash in the gun shootin and moddin bizness

 

[TonyC]

I've been toying with the idea of getting my FFL and Class II SOT, so that I may better serve the law enforcement and NFA community by taking in their unwanted cash.

could someone please put this into english for me?

FFL - Free Fire License - - means he can shoot anywhere he darn well pleases

SOT - - Shoot Other Things - - means not restricted to paper targets. He can shoot at animals and people when the situations present themselves

Class II SOT - - better than a Class I (restricted to animals less than 18" tall, children under 36" tall, and bad guys that are running towards the shooter) but not quite as good as the Class III (unlimited - animals of any size, good guys or bad guys anywhere if it's necessary) Class II restricts the carrier to any adults, any animals, and only children that present an immediate danger to the shooter

NFA - - Not Forced Around - - people in this community rarely, if ever, are forced to do things they don't want to do. Once they show the FFL and Class II SOT, most guys run away.











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[FurloughedAgain]

Boy does this thread ever strike a chord with me. I know exactly how you feel.

First and foremost -- the young guys aren't going to understand. Heck, when I was 21 I wouldn't have understood either. Getting to the place where the job you've dreamed of since you were a little boy suddenly loses all of its luster takes several years and, more often than not, a lot of heartache.

To be honest, I envy you. The quick upgrade, the nice equipment. Sounds like you've had a pretty comfortable ride so far.

I think that before I started feeling the way you feel I was coming up on 10 years in the industry and my fourth (or was it fifth?) airline job.

Like so many others I had the brass ring for a while. Like thousands of other pilots I did everything right in the mid-90s and ended up with a major. And, just like everyone else, had that taken away shortly after September 11th. Trying to figure out how to recover from that event and still enjoy the profession has been a real challenge.

Worse yet, after my fourth industry furlough I started to feel like chicken little. I always feel like the sky is about to fall. Not a day goes by that I dont read the headlines in the paper and wonder if the axe is about to fall on my company or my position. I cant find anyone who understands why i'm constantly keeping my resume up to date and why I start looking for my NEXT job the minute I finish training on my CURRENT job. I can't explain it myself.

I guess it is my lack of any marketable skills. I have no real talent outside of aviation. I have no education outside of aviation. So the prospect of losing this job gets more and more frightening every day -- especially now as my resume stretches to two pages... 7 airlines...9 airplanes...4 furloughs...

My wife has been patient and understanding. She's moved twice since 09/11. She's put up with crashpads, and initial trainings, and interviews, and relocations after relocations. She's a good woman, but I can see this lifestyle wearing on her as well.

I dont see myself getting back to a major airline cockpit any time soon. The young guys will say that i've given up or that I dont "love" flying enough. I think i've given aviation all the love I have to give. She keeps kicking me in the nuts! Heck, I still love flying. But i'd give up most anything to find something else that I have a talent for. If only I had one more skill that a company might find valuable. Any plan "b" that I could be successful at without investing any more of my own time or money.

I love my current job. It's one of those pilot "dream jobs" you read about. 50 hours a month. Most weekends and holidays off. Home every night. Good pay. Great quality of life....and yet deep inside I cant shake the feeling that this job isn't going to be around for the next 25 years. I'd love to retire from here, but I cant help but to feel that it's unlikely. This is my first corporate job, but i've always heard about how corporations can sell the airplanes out from under you and "poof!" Then what? Another thread on this website talks about a Kodak pilot who was laid off after 29 years.

So I still read the headlines every day. And I still look for ways to provide for my family if all of this should go away...again. Always looking for plan "B"....nomatter how good things are at plan "A"

So yeah, I know how you feel. And if you're able to escape aviation -- maybe fly for fun once or twice a month -- and make a living at another occupation, well then I salute you. Because if you're successful then you're a hero to thousands of us who wish we could figure out how to do the same.

Good luck!

 

[funky]

Have you ever thought about going back to teaching? Maybe part-time or something that gives you enough time to spend with your family? You and your family can always find ways of getting by. I agree with you, time is far more important than money.

 

[Duderino]

Why don't you wait until you have some experience to comment. I for one enjoyed the post, and it reminded me that there are others out there with the same feelings I get on days where I want to strangle my Captain. Family is number one. I don't have a family to take care of, but I can't imagine how I am going to keep one together once I do. Kind of scary. I have been on the road for 28 out of the past 31 days, missed my best friends wedding in which I was the best man, and pretty much lost interest from a girl I am dating. I am completely fed up with my job, and to be honest, my profession. It seems like what ever job I have, the same crap happens.

Not to be a jerk here but I say leave. If you don't like your job... well that is too bad but I don't want to hear about it. I know many people (some just starting some high up at Major airlines) who love their job. If you go in thinking your going to be rich fast or things are going to be easy for you you are stupid. I just cant stand people who complain about their jobs. You have the option to do something about it... until then... keep it to yourself and I'm going to live my dream and like it.

But hey thats just my thought

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Boy does this thread ever strike a chord with me. I know exactly how you feel.

Great post. I enjoyed reading it. Have you ever read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad?" I think you'd enjoy it. Real estate investing might be a road for you to pursue on your time off.

I just turned 28 and am an RJ Captain. 6 years ago when I got hired at XJT I thought I would be at Delta by 25. Boy was I wrong. But here I sit pondering the same things most of you have...is this a career I want for the next 32 years? I love the flying. Don't love some of the other associated stuff. I've seen first hand the inside of a 3-labor negotiation process and it was ugly. I've seen the furlough of 400+ of my fellow pilots (I wasn't one of them). I've also seen a lot of the good side of this career and it is a great career provided, as someone said above, that you keep your expectations in check. That is the key element here. Not everyone will be 777 captains making $300k per year. So if that is the only thing that will make a pilot happy, then that pilot is in for a rough ride.

Nonetheless, good luck to you (and everyone else on here). Only time will tell what the best course of action is for everyone.

-Neal

 

[barnyard]

Not to be a jerk here but I say leave. If you don't like your job... well that is too bad but I don't want to hear about it(1). I know many people (some just starting some high up at Major airlines)(2) who love their job. If you go in thinking your going to be rich fast or things are going to be easy for you you are stupid. I just cant stand people who complain about their jobs.(3) You have the option to do something about it... until then... keep it to yourself and I'm going to live my dream and like it.(4)

But hey thats just my thought

1. You don't want to hear about it because you're currently working the WORST job in the aviation industry, CFI'ing. I feel your pain- I instructed through college and can't even imagine how much fun I missed because I was stuck CFIing every day of the week on top of my classes. When you hear someone that has your 'dream job' expressing dissatisfaction with this industry's QOL, you get thinking that maybe he's right and it's not going to be all sunshine and b.lowjobs...but you haven't got 'there' yet. I bet you're one of those guys that thinks once you get a regional and 'get' to wear that stoopid uniform that now you're 'living the dream'. But guess what, after that first paycheck comes in and you're making 19.02 an hour the stress of realizing what you can;t do while living off less than poverty wages, the buzz of 'being able' to tell people you're an 'airline pilot' is gonna wear off really quick. (I tell people I meet I'm a garbageman.) The point of this thread is- if you want to have a stable family and get happiness from the things that really matter in life, stay away from being an airline pilot.

(2) whaaaaat?

(3) We can't stand people that walk around with the perma-grin pretending everything is rosy every friggin day. You're probly the same type that would vote for a paycut in exchange for 'growth', bend over to take any reaming mgmt will give you, cross a picket line, etc. I bet you also think that doing an ILS to mins while in moderate or greater is 'fun'...done that yet?

(4) Come back and let's talk in a couple years.

-Barn

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

But when you get married and have kids, flying will be a lot different. It will be a JOB in a run down industry.

Yet another perfectly good career ruined by marriage. DTB and go have some fun.

 

[bigD]

Yet another perfectly good career ruined by marriage. DTB and go have some fun.

My girlfriend once said to me, "You seem so apathetic towards the subject of marriage. Seriously, what does marriage mean to *you*?"

"It means that I'm likely never getting blown again."


Yeah, that was the wrong answer.

 

[bigD]

On a serious note, I appreciate this thread. I'm still on the bottom rung and am working my way up, and at the moment I have a great job that I love, but threads like this are a reminder that it can be taken away in a heartbeat. If nothing else it prompts me to never rest on my laurels, and always be thinking about a Plan B.

 

[funky]

The real estate advice is a good one. My wife currently makes all of the $$$ (I used to in a engineering field, until i quit), and we saved up and bought (built) our first house this year. We have already made $70k off of it, and we just closed on the house. Each year we live in this house we are making roughly $50k just from the appreciation. Its a beautiful place to live, pool/jacuzzi out back and life is good. But it took me 7 years to figure this out, while I was in the meantime in 11 different apartments along the way.

Real estate (the right kind) makes life much easier. Find a place that is new and up and coming, and go. Then fly for the love instead of for the $$$.

I think if you do ANYTHING for $$ it will eventually wear itself out. At least that is what I have come to realize from chasing the dream. I intend to CFI part-time and use the time to meet people and do what I love doing, flying. I realize that I will have to make decisions along the way to keep my life at a slower pace -- someone will always want you to work harder and more time for more $$. Just don't do it. Put your money into real estate and watch it grow. And do what you love.

Great post. I enjoyed reading it. Have you ever read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad?" I think you'd enjoy it. Real estate investing might be a road for you to pursue on your time off.

onetheless, good luck to you (and everyone else on here). Only time will tell what the best course of action is for everyone.

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

We have already made $70k off of it, and we just closed on the house. Each year we live in this house we are making roughly $50k just from the appreciation.

Just be careful...past history is not an accurate indicator of future performance. Just because you have made 70k so far doesn't mean you will continue to see gains like that. If you do, great...but don't plan your life around that expectation. If you do, you will find yourself up sh-t's creek one day.

-Neal

 

[funky]

Just be careful...past history is not an accurate indicator of future performance. Just because you have made 70k so far doesn't mean you will continue to see gains like that. If you do, great...but don't plan your life around that expectation. If you do, you will find yourself up sh-t's creek one day.

-Neal

ahhh sh-t's creek...don't we all end up there eventually?

 

[darkvw]

been there so often I have a time share now, love to watchthe waves roll in

 

[Goose Egg]

A CFI's comments...

Great thread, very interesting reading.

All I can really speak from is my own experience. I currently have the "worst" job in aviation (flight instructing), and even though the pay completely sucks, I enjoy what I do and I look forward to (almost) every day of work. I don't get to buy all the nice golf stuff and surfboards that I want, but I can pay my bills and I don't go hungry. I'd say that my QOL, all things considered, is pretty high. I really don't want to be doing anything else right now. And that's not to say that once I get enough time, I won't be looking to move on, but I'm happy with where I am for the moment.

Speaking of moving on, my path in life may lead me to a regional job. If that's what life gives me, then so be it. Will aspects of it completely suck? Yeah, I'm pretty sure, but I'm aware of that beforehand--my expectations are realistic. And I think that's really the trick to being happy in life, to have realistic expectations. It will take years of hard work and sacrifice to have a successful flying career. I've put in years already, and I'll put in years more. That's my expectation. Is the definition of success a job at a major? A good corporate job? Something else entirely? Could be any of those. I'm staying flexible. And though my goal may be somewhat ambiguous, it doesn't relieve me of the duty of working hard towards it. I'm sure that the days of working my butt off are far from over.

Example: I might never have a single digit handicap, but I'm sure as hell not going to quit playing golf because of it.

There are plenty of examples of families "ruined by aviation." There are plenty more examples of perfectly happy families where the spouse flies for a living. You get out what you put in. It's all about expectations--hard work and flexible, realistic expectations. If the truth will be told, I personally know more happy aviation families than unhappy.

Now, with all that said, the regional job that I thought would partially suck may actually completely suck. If that happens, I'll look for other flying options--there are plenty out there, and I'm absolutely sure that I can find something that I'll be happy with.

But then again, regional flying might be the time of my life. The only way to find out is try it, evaluate it, and if it's good ride it to the end.

And I'm off the soapbox...

-Goose

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I dont believe that any of my expectations were unrealistic. But, you're new to the profession so I'm happy to let you take a few years to bounce around in this industry and then report back to us.

Hope that "hard work" and those "flexible, realistic expectations" work out better for you than they did for me.

 

[bobs98tlr]

I know you guys are pouring your hearts and headakes out on this post but this is really depressing. I cant rememeber when i first knew i wanted to be a pilot but i think it was when i was 4 or 5. I havent wanted much since. However i never really factored in what the life style would do to me and my family (when that happens). Im currently engaged and she is totally aware of this life style. Im just starting to think what i could do to stay happy in this carreer i havent started yet so i dont have this same discouragement down the road like most of you. I know its out of my hands really and no one can plan out a future when your a pilot.

 

[Goose Egg]

I dont believe that any of my expectations were unrealistic.

Never said that they were. I was speaking for myself only.

But, you're new to the profession so I'm happy to let you take a few years to bounce around in this industry and then report back to us.

I'd be happy to. As I said, it may suck completely, but I have allowed for that possibility. If I hate flying, I'll do something else. No whining, no threads on flightinfo, I'll just do something else. I'll actually be pursuing a graduate degree to allow myself an "out" if needs be.

I honestly don't know if I'll like flying for an airline or not. But I do know that for each of you guys that think it sucks there is another that thinks it's great. Which kind of person am I? There's only one way to find out, and I'm sure as hell not going to take your guys' word for it! I ain't no sheep. Call it PIC authority over my own life.

Hope that "hard work" and those "flexible, realistic expectations" work out better for you than they did for me.

I dunno, you've got a pretty good thing going (my first choice, actually.) I'd say that it worked out fine for you. And you are right, that job may come to an end prematurely. But there's no sense worrying about it now. Save some cash for a rainy day and cross that bridge when you come to it.

-Goose